[FullRangeMan]

Sounds like transistors because it is.

      Well said...

[Freo-1]

  Well said...

You missed the point.  The gain stage is a transformer, not transistor, which is part of what makes the tube sound.

[medium jim]

Freo:

Granted, inferior tube amp builds are a reality, same with SS.  My gripe is that the use of the term "Sounds Tubey", denigrates all tube amps, superior, good and bad.  When one discusses SS amps, there is no such synonym.  Instead, more factual terms are applied, lean, bright, grainy, and is only applied to a particular amp, not the genus of SS.

Jim

[Freo-1]

I don''t see where the term "tubey" is any worse than the terms for solid state sounding "grainy" or "harsh".

Most of the receivers made from the 70's on up certainly qualify as grainy and harsh.

[medium jim]

I don''t see where the term "tubey" is any worse than the terms for solid state sounding "grainy" or "harsh".

Most of the receivers made from the 70's on up certainly qualify as grainy and harsh.

Freo:

Agreed, but the term harsh or grainy are not generally applied to all SS amps.   Tubey has arisen to a generic term applied with a wide paint brush to all tube amps.  When one says an amp is grainy, it is applied to the amp in question, not the whole species of SS amps.

My point is, when someone says it sounds tubey, or at least it doesn't sound at all tubey, challenge them to be more descriptive to what Tubey is to them.  Don't be surprised if they then use words that are endearing or favorable to those who like tubes!

Jim

[SteveFord]

I'm currently listening to a Harman Kardon Citation 22 solid state amp which sounds "tubey" to me.
That is, non fatiguing and pleasing to the ear.
Perhaps that's the proper definition.

[medium jim]

I'm currently listening to a Harman Kardon Citation 22 solid state amp which sounds "tubey" to me.
That is, non fatiguing and pleasing to the ear.
Perhaps that's the proper definition.

Steve:

Don't you mean, "it sounds like a tube amp".  Tubey connotes the negative qualities, not the desired ones.  Understand, I'm being a bit flippant, yet still serious.

Again, I recommend that those who use generic terms to explain what they really mean.

Jim

[Quiet Earth]

Well, personal taste always gets into these debates.

Absolutely right.  All of my lame comments were based on my personal taste, or lack thereof. Also, a pet peeve (which is the empetus of this thread) is a very personal thing.

I don''t see where the term "tubey" is any worse than the terms for solid state sounding "grainy" or "harsh".

You're right again, it's not. It just doesn't bother most tube guys I guess. There's that personal thing again. 

Btw, the step up tranny for voltage gain is a nice touch. I was wondering when he was going to get around to doing that. I personally don't like to use my TVC with solid state amps, but I know that it can be done the other way around. (Stepping up, not down.) The quality of the transformer is a big part of what makes a good tube amp sound good, as you said earlier. So there you go, one step closer. Now, if he could just get rid of those four transistors in the output . . . . Just kidding! 

[Quiet Earth]

Jim,

I think tubey is not such a negative term in the broader sense that we have to have a word to describe it one way or another. But it is your pet peeve not mine, so I understand your frustration.

[Freo-1]

Absolutely right.  All of my lame comments were based on my personal taste, or lack thereof. Also, a pet peeve (which is the empetus of this thread) is a very personal thing.

You're right again, it's not. It just doesn't bother most tube guys I guess. There's that personal thing again. 

Btw, the step up tranny for voltage gain is a nice touch. I was wondering when he was going to get around to doing that. I personally don't like to use my TVC with solid state amps, but I know that it can be done the other way around. (Stepping up, not down.) The quality of the transformer is a big part of what makes a good tube amp sound good, as you said earlier. So there you go, one step closer. Now, if he could just get rid of those four transistors in the output . . . . Just kidding! 

It's "horses for courses"   
 
Truth be told, I like "all good sounding gear", be it tube or solid state.  I'm waiting for my chassis to get back from the shop, as a pair of mono blocks are going to be made that sport 12SN7 input tubes, and 1625 output tubes.  I plan to use it with my new Conrad Johnson clone preamp and wavelength audio cosine DAC.  That means there are tubes from the DAC all the way to the speakers.   
 
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110027.0
 

[Mike Nomad]

Huh. I never heard the term 'tubey' used solely in the negative, except when the person talking didn't like tube amps.

I always thought of the term as simply a descriptor, like other terms: Brittle, harsh, grainy, etc.

Merely a half-step from, "Does this tube make my stereo sound fat?"

[ltr317]

Huh. I never heard the term 'tubey' used solely in the negative, except when the person talking didn't like tube amps.

I always thought of the term as simply a descriptor, like other terms: Brittle, harsh, grainy, etc.

Merely a half-step from, "Does this tube make my stereo sound fat?"

Not if the tube is wearing black. 

[medium jim]

Not if the tube is wearing black. 

Black bottle tube's are sexy....

Jim

[brooklyn]

What is Tubey?   Sure, it is the bloated sound from a cheap desk top Tube Radio made of inferior parts, but there is no such sound in well built Tube Amp's or Pre's.   

Do they mean that it has a large and 3D (liquid) Soundstage, or that the highs are not lean, rather refined and pleasing?

Sorry, but it is the most wrongly used word in the Audiophilium that I know of.

Thanks,
Jim

Sorry Jim, I guess I misunderstood your question. Tubey for me was when I owned Conrad Johnson, amp and pre back in the late eighties. At that time it sounded glorious to me but thinking back, compared to what I have now it sounded tubey for lack of a better word. I do like tubes though and have a tube preamp and love it. Sorry about the confused answer.   

Jerry

[medium jim]

Sorry Jim, I guess I misunderstood your question. Tubey for me was when I owned Conrad Johnson, amp and pre back in the late eighties. At that time it sounded glorious to me but thinking back, compared to what I have now it sounded tubey for lack of a better word. I do like tubes though and have a tube preamp and love it. Sorry about the confused answer.   

Jerry

Jerry:

Interesting, CJ's were and still are known for being very neutral and SS like. 

Jim

[ltr317]

Jerry:

Interesting, CJ's were and still are known for being very neutral and SS like. 

Jim

I've heard recent CJ components (approx. 5 years old) which sound closer to neutral, but the eighties CJ equipment I heard are definitely on the warm side.   

[medium jim]

What would be an interesting Blind test is the best tube amps from several different decades with the rest of the setup being identical. 

I would bet that the voting would be all over the place, which is from which decade.   

Jim

[TONEPUB]

I guess if I were calling something "tubey" I'd call it "vintage tubey..."

The convergence between the best tube and best SS stuff today is amazingly close.

[medium jim]

I have heard a pair of Vintage Marantz 9's from 1963, as well as my RI's from 1997, and modern tube and SS amps, and find the Marantz's to be timeless.  The same can be said for the McIntosh 2275's, I'm sure there are other high end tube amps from all decades that are not overly warm, lush, or bloated, or "Tubey"!

Jim