[usp1]

Looking for an inexpensive subwoofer to pair with my 1.6QRs. THe RELs are, obviously, one of the go to choices with maggies but I have been reading a lot of good things about the Epik legend as well. ANyone have experience both one or both?

[SteveFord]

I've only heard the REL but that sounded really good and is what I'm going to end up with, I suspect.

[Rclark]

I'm posting my Legend review later tonight or tomorrow but I'll give you a hint: I absolutely love it with a capital L.

[medium jim]

I'm posting my Legend review later tonight or tomorrow but I'll give you a hint: I absolutely love it with a capital L.

What other subs are you using as references to the Epik?  Have you ever heard a REL with Maggie's? 

Jim

[Rclark]

 I've never heard a REL but would love to. However as he is looking for an opinion on the Legend I can provide that.

 - I doubt there is anyone who has heard both.

[Thirsty]

I just spent the last three hours incorporating a new T2 with my Green Mountain Eos HX speakers and I'm  impressed on how well they integrate, my only regret is waiting this long to buy one.

I've never heard the Epic, and it may be the better choice for a huge room if you want chest pounding bass.

I set the T2 up with a test disc and an RS SPL meter and it's hitting 20hz. Although it's down 10db at that frequency, so not much useable gain that low, the T1 should do better.

Tough choice.

[Rclark]

 actually the Epik is capable of volume, but it is extremely accurate and musical, a pure joy for music. More to come. definitely not your standard home theater boomer type.

[medium jim]

I've never heard a REL but would love to. However as he is looking for an opinion on the Legend I can provide that.

 - I doubt there is anyone who has heard both.

You didn't answer the question as to what other subs you used as reference to compare to the Epik Legend.  There needs to be a point of reference in your review or it doesn't mean anything.

Jim

[Rclark]

Oh, I'll list them in my review.

[Davey]

Subwoofers are easy.....that's why so many people sell them. 
Select a good quality driver with the specs you desire......build a nice solid box to let it perform to those specs.....get a sub-woofer amplifier from China.....done.

How well it "integrates" or what type of a magical relationship it has with your main speakers is largely about placement and configuration of the amplfier filter/EQ.

I'm sure either one of the subwoofers queried here would be fine.  I'd go with the cheaper one.

Cheers,

Dave.

[medium jim]

Davey:

Boy do I ever agree.  When I was on my quest for the right subwoofer, I discovered that there were many wonderful and musical subs out there.  Precisely why I started a thread about them in the Bass Circle.

Jim

[usp1]

Currently I have a Swan sealed sub...dual 10" woofer and 200w amp. One woofer is front firing the other down firing. It is not the ultimate in low-end extension but pretty decent and musical. I was happy with it until I got maggies. Now it seems a bit slow. When I bought my 1.6Qr the person who sold it to me had a REL and it seemed to integrate very well with the maggies. I did not pay much attention to the model so not sure what it was. In any case, now that I am relatively happy with the rest of my system I am starting to rethink the sub.

[Rclark]

Usp-1 it sounds like our situations are pretty similar. I think you'll enjoy my review. Soon as I get home I'll wet down the cowlicks and post it.

 - got caught up watching college football with the housemate. Tommorrow.

[medium jim]

usp1:

Something to consider is impedance matching to your mains, which are 4ohm.

Jim

[srb]

Something to consider is impedance matching to your mains, which are 4ohm.

Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense to me.  What's important is that the subwoofer amplifier is compatible with the subwoofer driver(s) in both impedance matching and power requirements.
 
If you're using line level inputs, the main speaker impedance is irrelevant and if you're using speaker level inputs, it's also irrelevant as the input impedance is so high as to render it essentially a voltage source.
 
Steve

[medium jim]

Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense to me.  What's important is that the subwoofer amplifier is compatible with the subwoofer driver(s) in both impedance matching and power requirements.
 
If you're using line level inputs, the main speaker impedance is irrelevant and if you're using speaker level inputs, it's also irrelevant as the input impedance is so high as to render it essentially a voltage source.
 
Steve

Steve:

With just about every powered subwoofer made, the sub has a fixed point high pass crossover for the main speakers--and these high pass crossovers almost invariably presume a 8 ohm speaker. So when you try to use them with a 4 ohm (or in some cases 5 Ohm) Magnepan, you end up with a crossover point that is an octave too high!

Jim

[*Scotty*]

Jim, You're going to have to explain this one to me,

With just about every powered subwoofer made, the sub has a fixed point high pass crossover for the main speakers--and these high pass crossovers almost invariably presume a 8 ohm speaker. So when you try to use them with a 4 ohm (or in some cases 5 Ohm) Magnepan, you end up with a crossover point that is an octave too high!

.
If the sub has a fixed high pass crossover point with a line level output to the amp powering the main system the frequency of the high pass crossover point is independent of the loudspeakers impedance.
Scotty

[medium jim]

Jim, You're going to have to explain this one to me,.
If the sub has a fixed high pass crossover point with a line level output to the amp powering the main system the frequency of the high pass crossover point is independent of the loudspeakers impedance.
Scotty

Scotty:

The way it was explained to me is that if the crossover or in this case, 8ohm inpedance for the fixed point High Pass that if you then feed that path to a 4 ohm speaker it will double the effect of the crossover...so if your 8 ohm sub has a fixed High-Pass that feeds into a 4ohm Speaker it will double the roll off point. 

Jim

[munosmario]

Steve:

With just about every powered subwoofer made, the sub has a fixed point high pass crossover for the main speakers--and these high pass crossovers almost invariably presume a 8 ohm speaker. So when you try to use them with a 4 ohm (or in some cases 5 Ohm) Magnepan, you end up with a crossover point that is an octave too high!

Jim

Jim, your first sentence is totally correct. Now, with regard to the rest, as far as I know, in my three Sunfire Signatures the high-pass filter is a Passive Line Level X-Over (PLLXO) supposedly with a 70 Hz cut-off point. This PLLXO hi-pass filter is placed inside the subwoofer, directly in the path of the line level signal that comes from the preamp and loops back (through the Hi-pass outputs) into the main amp. It is completely independent from the much more sofisticated active low- pass filter governing the subwoofer.

By definition, PLLXO's are independent of speaker impedance but not independent from the input impedance of the amplifier to which the filter is to be connected--in this case, the amp driving the main speakers. Clearly, Sunfire must have factor-in a given input impedance when calculating that PLLXO 70 Hz filter. However, if that assumed amp-input-impedance value happens to be, say, 20K but your main's amp has, for example, a lowish 10K-15k or a highish 50k-100k (tube amp territory) the PLLXO cut off point is not going to be 70Hz (in the Sunfire case). In addition, the output impedance of your preamp and interconnect resistance (long cables ususally needed when looping back and forth) will also affect the final cut-off frequency of the PLLXO filter, thus, complicating matters even further.

So, Jim, in my Sunfire case (which I would surmise applies to most subwoofers out there), you were totally right in stating that impedance matching is essential, but not  in reference to main speakers' impedance. Of course, as Davey said in another thread, you don't need to go through the unknown path of the hi-pass filter built in the subwoofer. You can design a simple PLLXO using the correct relevant impedances of your equipment --to obtain the desired PLLXO cut-off frqency--and insert a simple capacitor/resistor network at the main speaker's power amp's inputs (hope Davey steps in and confirms/corrects my assertions)

Cheers,

Mario

[Davey]

Until recently, I was unaware that any subwoofer amplifiers actually had large value capacitors installed between the speaker-level input and output jacks.  (Many don't even have output jacks.)
It's such a horrible concept..IMO..that I was very surprised to see it.  Oh well. 

Anyways, some of the subwoofer amplifiers I've seen also have a lower value loading resistor installed in conjunction with the series capacitor in the line-level input/output path.  That would tend to "normalize" the high-pass frequency somewhat, but if your main amplifier already has a lowish input resistance then it might not work as well as intended.

Another thing regarding speaker-level high-pass filtering within some subwoofer amplifiers.  The value capacitor required places the cutoff point right down in the area of potentially large box/driver impedance swings.  This will cause significant skewing of the intended high-pass cutoff curve.
For Magnepan's, the system impedance is much flatter to low frequencies, relative to conventional speakers, so the capacitors yield a more "textbook" filter curve shape.  I still don't like the whole idea though. 

Cheers,

Dave.