[ooheadsoo]

My setup can be found in my sig.  I'm basically 3-4 feet from my speakers when I'm listening critically.  When I'm far back in the room, I really don't care about the sound so much because I'm probably reading or studying.  Is there any benefit to doing any treatment when I am probably hearing the direct sound primarily versus reflected sound?

[witchdoctor]

Yes. This exactly how audio engineers listen when they mix. You should post in the 8th Nerve section and ask Bill Laurent.

[WilliamL]

Good point doctor! Post some pictures of your room over in the Eighth Nerve forum if you get a chance.

Best Listening,
Bill Laurent

[LordCloud]

I listen in the relative nearfield though not quite as close as you. In my experience the biggest and best change in my system occured when I put a little room treatment in. Specificallly four 2' by 4' long foam pieces on the wall behind the speakers and one 2' by 2' piece along the left wall for first reflections. In my system I wasn't really trying to treat the room as much as I was trying to make the room less live. The best I can describe the change is a lowering of noise, much smoother sound, and a soundstaging and imaging improvement that was indredible. It was the cheapest and best thing I've done so far.

[Ethan Winer]

Soo,

> Is there any benefit to doing any treatment when I am probably hearing the direct sound primarily versus reflected sound? <

Yes, and it's a common myth that listening nearer to the loudspeakers removes all of the bad effects of a room. It's true that the ratio of direct to reflected sound improves favorably when you're very close to the speakers. But the echoes are still there, just 10 dB below the music instead of only 5 dB (or whatever).

More important, the badly skewed low frequency response present in all untreated rooms is always present no matter how close you are to the speakers. If you have a test tone CD or another way to play swept sine waves, sit right in front of your speakers while a tone sweeps through the low end. You'll understand immediately.

--Ethan

[ooheadsoo]

Thanks for the replies.  I didn't want to post in the 8th Nerve section because I can't afford any of their products    If I did anything, it would probably be light colored foam from target or walmart  

Any recommendations on how I should modify my setup?  For obvious reasons, the speakers can't really move out in front of the monitor much more than it already is (if at all.)  It's currently on a a plane that is about 1/2 an inch in front of the monitor.  My current plan is to add some foam to the back of the wall behind each speaker and maybe on the wall above my monitor.  Then I may add some foam to the left wall, but color matching will be tough there because it's dark brown.

[ooheadsoo]

After looking at the naysayers on the cheapo target/walmart foam, I think it's come down to either Jon Risch's diy panels, which will still cost a hefty amount, disregarding my two right thumbs (I'm left handed) is this here: http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=SNXJRCHF&product_name=Juniors%20Acoustic%20Panels

Also, I don't have a foot of clearance like Jon recommends and neither do I have the room for either 6.5" or 8" thickness, realistically.  This stuff is going to be stuck pretty much right up on the wall, with minimal clearance, maybe an inch or two max.  Any opinions on this product?  I actually got the idea to look at audioadvisor from Jon Risch's site.  They didn't have the product he recommended, but this doesn't seem too bad, though still out of my budget for a month or two at  least.  

On the other hand, I could probably buy some foam from a fabric store and cut it out like this sonex product!  That would certainly be cheap!  In fact...if I were clever enough with my cutting, I could probably make two pieces out of 1...

[zybar]

Check out foam on Ebay from FoambyMail.  You can basically get what thye sell on their website for 50% off their retail prices.

I would get 4" thick so it absorbs well at lower midrange and upper bass frequencies.

George

[davejcb]

Why bother with foam? It's expensive and not as absorbant as rigid fiberglass. Owens-Corning 703 panels are ~13 bucks each here.

Off www.foambymail, 3" wedge: 72" x 48" x 3" -1 Sheet Size $125.99

[zybar]

The prices are half if you buy from them off Ebay.

Those panels will need fabric and a frame.

I was just trying to give the person a finished solution.

BTW, I use a combination of products for room treatment:

MiniTraps by RealTraps.com
8thNerve Roompack +
EchoBusters
4" Foam 1'x1' panels

George

[Ethan Winer]

Soo,

> light colored foam from target or walmart <

That stuff is not acoustic foam, and it's probably even more flammable than real acoustic foam, which is plenty flammable already.

I agree with Dave and George: If you have no budget, get rigid fiberglass which is much better than any foam (and fireproof), but requires more labor to dress it up. Otherwise cheap foam - acoustic foam - is a reasonable option. It's not as good as fiberglass, but it's easy to use.

--Ethan

[ooheadsoo]

It looks like it's $60 for the 4" cheap pack.  That's not too bad.  Of course, if the fiberglass works better, and isn't that expensive, that may be a viable option as well for a more focused treatment of just the area behind and to the left of my speakers.  

Does anyone know of a good place to get the fiberglass in the Los Angeles area?  I thought I saw some mention of a place in a page on Ethan's site but there were no specifics.

Do you think if I posted a diagram/pics of my room, it would be helpful?

[ooheadsoo]

Here's a crap diagram:
 

Main room dimensions are roughly 14'x18'x9' or so?  Something like that.  There's a big hole in the wall next to my speakers that leads to a sink, bathroom, etc.  My system's pic is in my sig, so you can get an idea of its relation to the rest of the room.

[Ethan Winer]

> Does anyone know of a good place to get the fiberglass in the Los Angeles area? <

Look in the Yellow Pages under Insulation suppliers and contractors, and also Heating and air conditioning suppliers.

--Ethan

[ooheadsoo]

I just swung by Home Depot before getting back...Saw some "FRP" Fiberglass reinforced Panels.  Is this it?  It was running $30 for a huge sheet.  It looked to me like a bunch of fiberglass layed up and with a texture applied to one side.  Kinda flexible.  Am I on track here?

[ooheadsoo]

I asked around and came up with these guys: 800nonoise.com.  The specs on their products look pretty good.  I need to look up their prices.

[MaxCast]

This is a good thread because I guess I don't know what the hell rigid fiberglass is.   How thick is it?

[8thnerve]

This is a good thread because I guess I don't know what the hell rigid fiberglass is.   How thick is it?

It comes in varying thicknesses.  The most common sizes would be between 1.5"-3".  For acoustic use I would go with either two or three inch varieties.

[Ethan Winer]

Soo and Max,

> I guess I don't know what the hell rigid fiberglass is. <

Here's a photo of 703 one inch thick:



As you can see, it is rigid enough that it doesn't flop over when not supported (right side of photo), but not so rigid that it can't be bent or squeezed.

For the full story see the Acoustics FAQ, second in the list on my Articles page:

www.ethanwiner.com/articles.html

--Ethan

[ooheadsoo]

Ok, that's clearly not what I saw at home depot!  Back to square one.  I'll try to find out about this foam stuff, and if it's too expensive, I'll get back to insulation shops.