[Nick B]

I owned the W4S modded Sonos and I cannot recommend it. The sound quality was worse than stock, imo, including the digital output.  Oversampling or something noticeably dulls the sound.  But the stock Sonos needs a good jitter rejecting DAC or a jitter scrubber on the digital output.

Thanks for that. I have heard and enjoyed Empirical Audio's stuff before, but never any W4S products.

[JLM]

jarcher,

Olive's "earmarking" adds an electronic tag to each file that renders it unsharable with other brands (I'm NOT computer, so look elsewhere for a "real" answer).

Thanks for the heads up on the simpleaudio review.  Seems in audio there is rarely the all around perfect solution. 

[jarcher]

Wow - that "earmarking" sounds almost as bad as legislative earmarking - sorry for the bad pun, it comes w/ living in the DC area!

But seriously, you have to wonder when a boutique company starts acting like a Microsoft trying to lock people into their proprietary software!  Why do they think a customer would be willing to take all the time / effort to feed the server w/ cds only to have a locked in system in case they want to migrate?

[Regalma]

Just read that the squeeze line has been discontinued. Too bad, the Touch was pretty decent, still prone to crashing at 11:00 at night after I had too much wine to troubleshoot it, but much better than the SB2. Still too buggy for me. I am an engineer who likes to stop being an engineer when I go home (actually engineers can never stop being engineers, but that is another story).

JRiver is great, after years and years of the frustration of the Squeeze line this is so simple and sounds so good. A cheap laptop, a cheap Droid tablet for the remote, a USB DAC and you are set.

[Nick B]

Just read that the squeeze line has been discontinued. Too bad, the Touch was pretty decent, still prone to crashing at 11:00 at night after I had too much wine to troubleshoot it, but much better than the SB2. Still too buggy for me. I am an engineer who likes to stop being an engineer when I go home (actually engineers can never stop being engineers, but that is another story).

JRiver is great, after years and years of the frustration of the Squeeze line this is so simple and sounds so good. A cheap laptop, a cheap Droid tablet for the remote, a USB DAC and you are set.

For whatever reason, there's a hesitation about going the usb route. I read Steve Nugent's guide and it doesn't seem all that easy (or cheap)either for really getting great sound. What about jitter, the quality of the usb connections, the software to run it, which usb dac etc...   I guess I can get a laptop for $300 and use my wife's Nook for the Android app. However, it seems getting a Sonos, plugging it into a SynchroMesh and a dac is so easy. Am I missing something or has my irrational fear of pc's taken over?

[jarcher]

Hey Nick: you come to a conclusion yet about the SB2 replacement?  Sonos or something else?

One thing I've recently come to learn - in just about any product I've used the optical digital has been significantly worse - and I had the best most expensive wireworld glass optical cable out there.  Even that plugged into a cheapo $20 toslink to spif coax digital converter was much better.  So not totally on topic - but avoid optical!

Its more of a spend, but have you considered doing a mac mini or some kind of pc server w/ tablet or smart phone app?  This to me still seem to be the best value vs expensive & proprietary boutique or "high end audio" servers.  Still probably talking $1,200 - $1,500 between the cost of the mac mini, AC to DC conversion, power supply, and cabling including USB to SPDIF converter.  But then you'd have something more future-proof / upgradeable.  Currently exploring options for a Mac Mini I have & favoring Mojo Audio.

[Nick B]

Hey Nick: you come to a conclusion yet about the SB2 replacement?  Sonos or something else?

One thing I've recently come to learn - in just about any product I've used the optical digital has been significantly worse - and I had the best most expensive wireworld glass optical cable out there.  Even that plugged into a cheapo $20 toslink to spif coax digital converter was much better.  So not totally on topic - but avoid optical!

Its more of a spend, but have you considered doing a mac mini or some kind of pc server w/ tablet or smart phone app?  This to me still seem to be the best value vs expensive & proprietary boutique or "high end audio" servers.  Still probably talking $1,200 - $1,500 between the cost of the mac mini, AC to DC conversion, power supply, and cabling including USB to SPDIF converter.  But then you'd have something more future-proof / upgradeable.  Currently exploring options for a Mac Mini I have & favoring Mojo Audio.

Hi jarcher,
Funny you should respond today. I had my computer guy come to the house and he fixed the connectivity issue. When booting up, another program was interfering with Logitech and he disabled a handful of those and now I am manually starting Logitech rather than autostart on boot up. I started a new thread on that today in case some guys wanted to try and resolve their issues as well. As soon as it was fixed, I looked for the Android app to use on my wife's Nook tablet.  But...all I could find were SB devices like the Touch that you could use it on. Apparently, the SB 2 isn't one of them. If you know of any other apps that would work for the SB 2 for a tablet , pls let me know. Since I've got it working, I am going to save up for an Anedio D2 DAC  ($1470). The very long thread  on that dac is on Head-Fi    http://www.head-fi.org/t/568758/anedio-d2-dac-release   There are  consistently positive comments on the Anedio. So I will either use the SB 2 or get a Touch and use that DAC. At least, that's the plan for now. There is an app called EDO that can be used with the Touch and that with the Anedio will result in exellent sound..at least per the Head-Fi guys.
Nick

[jarcher]

Hey Nick: glad to hear you got that sorted out.  I've been real happy w/ my Duet and sorta like having a dedicated remote in the SB Controller.  It even has a headphone jack for non critical listening.  I even order another receiver w/ mods & power supply from somebody here on Audiocircle.

As for Android control, presumably you've already seen & tried all of the following listed here:

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Remote_control_apps_for_Android

I know you already have a SB2, but the duets w/ controller are often cheap second hand from ebay & elsewhere. And then w/ the receiver you would have something you could control w/ i-device or android apps.  W/ the SB controller though sometimes it's nice to just have something dedicated to one purpose w/ physical buttons. I got my Duet w/ Controller for $100 from some locally.

SQ not as good as SB2 natively, but then again, your getting an external DAC which will trump any squeezbox internal DAC.  I'm sure you've done your homework, but almost $1,500 for a DAC / headphone amp seems like a lot - i.e. Benchmark pricing. 

If you're looking for something like the anedio - i.e. DAC / headphone amp - there are obviously many choices, but would have to at least mention the one I have that I've been very happy w/ : the Matrix Mini-i.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrix-mini-24Bit-192KHz-Balanced-DAC-Remote-Control-/160634840829?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item25669526fd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrix-mini-i-24Bit-192KHz-Balanced-DAC-Headphone-Amp-/160539833922?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2560eb7642

They can also do one w/ upgraded op amps for $400.

I know some folks will turn there noses up at Chinese high end, but I and many other folks have bought these Matrix's and really I've heard nothing under $700 that I've liked more so far.  Had to throw that out there.

[Nick B]

Hey Nick: glad to hear you got that sorted out.  I've been real happy w/ my Duet and sorta like having a dedicated remote in the SB Controller.  It even has a headphone jack for non critical listening.  I even order another receiver w/ mods & power supply from somebody here on Audiocircle.

As for Android control, presumably you've already seen & tried all of the following listed here:

http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/Remote_control_apps_for_Android

I know you already have a SB2, but the duets w/ controller are often cheap second hand from ebay & elsewhere. And then w/ the receiver you would have something you could control w/ i-device or android apps.  W/ the SB controller though sometimes it's nice to just have something dedicated to one purpose w/ physical buttons. I got my Duet w/ Controller for $100 from some locally.

SQ not as good as SB2 natively, but then again, your getting an external DAC which will trump any squeezbox internal DAC.  I'm sure you've done your homework, but almost $1,500 for a DAC / headphone amp seems like a lot - i.e. Benchmark pricing. 

If you're looking for something like the anedio - i.e. DAC / headphone amp - there are obviously many choices, but would have to at least mention the one I have that I've been very happy w/ : the Matrix Mini-i.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrix-mini-24Bit-192KHz-Balanced-DAC-Remote-Control-/160634840829?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item25669526fd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matrix-mini-i-24Bit-192KHz-Balanced-DAC-Headphone-Amp-/160539833922?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item2560eb7642

They can also do one w/ upgraded op amps for $400.

I know some folks will turn there noses up at Chinese high end, but I and many other folks have bought these Matrix's and really I've heard nothing under $700 that I've liked more so far.  Had to throw that out there.

Hey jarcher,
Thanks for the info. I haven't heard about the Matrix and am a bit hesitant to try anything from overseas. I don't have anything against the Chinese products at all, but what if I want to return it? Seems like too much of a risk/hassle to me. Since I am somewhat isolated in so Utah, I just don't have the opportunity to easily borrow products like I did in LA. I am still leaning toward trying the Anedio when I get the money. That will give me the opportunity to check out more of a reference product. I do have a question for you. My SB 2 has RCA and optical outs. I found an RCA to coax adapter..any idea if I can simply use the adapter or do I need anything else to connect into the coax on the new dac? If such an adapter is used, will it cause the sound to degrade? Also, I am looking specifically at the apps for tablets like the Barnes and Noble Nook.
I'll just download some of the Android apps for tablets when I have more time and  see how they look and function
Nick.

[jarcher]

Hey Nick: it is a small risk to buy some of the Chinese direct products, but the matrix mini a is pretty "mature" product as far as these go with many third party independent reviews to back it.  And worse case you sell it on over Audiogon.  I bought mine used that way @ $250. 

Just trying to save you some $$$$.  $1500 for a DAC is definitely in premium category (in my opinion) - and it better be backed up w/ some serious reviews / recommendations.  I bought my Bel Canto 1.5 new for less than that ($1300) - and it's bigger brother (w/ better power supply) is an A rated Stereophile recommended component. The Benchmark DAC 1 is also another product in that category / price that is a mature & well reviewed product.  I personally think it's too bright / aggressive vs the Bel Canto, which is why I chose the latter.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/2012-recommended-components-digital-processors

Not saying you shouldn't buy the Anedio, just that it better have a liberal return policy if you're going to take the plunge before others have had a chance to review / comment.

As for coaxial - you don't need an adaptor, any serious DAC will have have a coaxial / RCA SPDIF input. This includes the Anedio D2 and the other DACS I mentioned. You do have to used a coaxial digital cable, which though they have RCA connections are NOT regular RCA interconnect cables.

The Cable Co will let you try at home cables, so it's worth giving them a try.  I personally like the Wireworld Starlight 6 coax digital @ about $80 for 1M.  http://www.thecableco.com/Product/Starlight-6

Or if you want a super value, the liberty cable Z500 is a pretty decent cable at less than $10 :

http://www.libertycable.com/bargain_searchlist.php?pcode=INTZSE&liname=Interconnects%20-%20Z%20Series&bargain=1&navid=INTZSE

See Z500 THX DIG AUD Cable.

DO NOT USE THE OPTICAL.  Been down that road with many devices & even a $160 top of the line glass wireworld optical cable.  Always sounded worse than even cheapo RCA coaxial. I think the problem is that the transmitter / receivers for toslink were never really made "audiophile" grade. 

As for tablets : Amazon has a new Kindle HD which merits consideration.  Though for the most apps library I think the Google Nexus 7 is going to be the best option........I'm tempted by the new Kindle, but don't want to be locked into amazon app store.

[srb]

Thanks for the info. I haven't heard about the Matrix and am a bit hesitant to try anything from overseas. I don't have anything against the Chinese products at all, but what if I want to return it? Seems like too much of a risk/hassle to me.

Another option would be to buy it from a US dealer such as The Pacific Valve & Electric Company who would charge you 11% for return under a 30 Day Return policy, or wave the fee if swapped for another piece of equipment.
 
Steve

[Nick B]

hey jarcher and srb
Those are good suggestions. I have used the Cable Company, but that was years ago. Also,  I'd have no problem with an 11% restocking fee on the Matrix. As to the tablet, my wife already owns a Nook so I'll have to look for that type of Android software.
Nick

[JoeyGS]

How about using NAS with HDD and connecting to the router.  The music within the NAS is then played by wireless devices such as the iPad.  the iPad being fitted with its camera kit USB connector and connecting into an external USB dac.  I am looking at NAS from Buffalo:  http://www.buffalotech.com/products/network-storage

Would this come close to the sound of Squeeze Box?

[JLM]

Here's a most promising, compact, flexible, inexpensive product:

http://dune-hd.com/eng/

Look for Dune Smart series (does HDMI, toslink, and RCA outputs).  You buy as much as you need (CD/DVD/Blu-Ray drive or swapable SATA drive or 2 open bays).  Additional modules can be docked together so you have all features or start out with Dune HD max or Dune HD duo in a more standard width.

[Wayne1]

Here is an older thread about using Squeeze Commander with a Kindle Fire. I believe there were a few comments from folks who use it with a rooted Nook.

The app works with your server and the Logitech Music Server program, so it does not matter what generation Squeeze Box you are using.

[Nick B]

Here's where I'm at currently. The Logitech Music Server now works beautifully. I learned of a mod to the Schiit Bifrost dac, but that would cost about $850 incl the mod.  I have now looked at various tube amps and put an offer in on a modded Golden Tube Audio SE 40. The seller decided to keep it    I may get a tube amp and have it modded and then evaluate a couple of dacs if possible. As to controlling the Logitech server, my wife was just given the old iPad 1 as a gift and I have looked at the iPeng app. When I have more time(after recovering from knee surgery tomorrow) I will look into all the apps more. Thanks for all the information 

[eg1]

I am up to my eyeballs in squeezeboxen: an SB2, Duet, Boom and Radio currently operating. Also picked up two Touches cheap in the Logitech abandonment panic (they're still unopened).

So far the system (HP laptop running Vista  with a 3TB external hard drive) is operating OK :fingerscrossed:

Of course I am worried that the whole damned thing is going to crash, but it would be very costly to replace 6 rooms worth of audio distribution, so I'm hanging in there for now, hoping either the system holds, or a relatively simple migration path emerges ... 

[Bob in St. Louis]

I am up to my eyeballs in squeezeboxen:............

There was a time, not long ago, that I would have told you to toss them all in the fireplace. They're horrible.
Now, after all these years, I've managed to work the bugs out of mine and love them.
So if anybody wants to dump their logitech devices, PM me and I'll give you my mailing address. 

Bob