MMG to 1.6?

michaelkingdom · « **on:** 8 Jul 2012, 07:56 pm »

Hi all,

I have had a set of MMGs for about a year and love them. All the positive praise heaped upon them rings true in my opinion.

I have the opportunity to purchase a very clean, black pair of 1.6s for a very good price. They are 6-7 years old but look very good. Howevery, I have not heard anything in the Maggie line besides the MMG and the 20.1.

My room is 12x16, carpet, strong amplification (300w+).

I'm looking to find out if a switch from an MMG to the 1.6 would be a step up in sound quality.

What do the 1.6s do better than the MMGs?
Are they worse in any way?
How is the image changed?
How is the soundstage different?

Thanks

josh358 · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Jul 2012, 08:05 pm »

Image and soundstage are spectacularly better, although you can modify the MMG's by putting them upright and raising them off the floor a bit (at the expense of some bass).

They play louder, more cleanly, with less veiling, and of course go deeper.

The only ways I know of in which they may be worse are a) the acoustical centers of the drivers are very slightly further apart in the 1.6 so you have to sit slightly further back for a given degree of lateral smearing and b) the 1.6 tweeter is a bit rougher, it's been said that the MMG is more musical.

michaelkingdom · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Jul 2012, 08:14 pm »

Regarding rough vs. musical - what do you mean by that? Rough as in harsh/transparent/revealing of source? Musical as in hiding poor recordings and making them sound good?

josh358 · « **Reply #3 on:** 8 Jul 2012, 11:30 pm »

The on-axis response of the 1.6 isn't as smooth in the highs. The MMG also has a single pole crossover which gives the sound a more seamless quality.

But on balance, I'd say there's no contest.

SteveFord · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Jul 2012, 08:49 pm »

It looks like you made your mind up.
I think you'll enjoy either the 1.6s or 1.7s (which you had asked about earlier) quite a bit.
That size room is just perfect for them.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Jul 2012, 12:43 am »

I have a nice pair of 1.6s for sale on the Trading Post. Located in Missouri, so an easy drive from all three coasts!

Uh, er, at least I THOUGHT I had!

Trading Post listing coming up shortly.

earwaxxer · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 Jul 2012, 02:02 am »

I have the MMG's and have modded them over the years. I would not hesitate to get the 1.6's if you can get them for a good price. I would also tweak the crossovers in that one to get them to sing just right! The great upside with the 1.6's would be broader frequency response and most likely a much bigger and easier sound. Like you I love the MMG's! I feel most people have not fully extracted the potential from the maggies. Good caps really make a big difference, as well as proper cabling.

michaelkingdom · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Nov 2012, 11:05 am »

Well, I crossed the bridge today and picked them up. $700 and they are in fantastic shape. Babies 8/10 or better, black with oak strip.

Cables - Will a higher gauge speaker wire provide better results? 14g, 12g, 10g?

Minn Mark · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Nov 2012, 01:31 pm »

I have 3.6Rs in a room about your size, bi-wired with 12g zip cord. Amp is 300w + and I think they sound great. Single wire vs. bi-wired made only slight difference for me. I think you will be very happy moving up the product line.

Best,

Mark

SteveFord · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Nov 2012, 10:39 pm »

This will open up a whole can o' worms but Kimber 8TCs always gave me good results with the 1.6/1.7s.
Congrats!
Let us know what you think of the step up.

Minn Mark · « **Reply #10 on:** 9 Nov 2012, 05:32 pm »

More worms...

I have not heard directly, but Kimber Monocle has been recommended to me as a good match for Magneplaners and solid state amplification.

sebrof · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Nov 2012, 07:03 pm »

Quote from: michaelkingdom on 8 Nov 2012, 11:05 am

Well, I crossed the bridge today and picked them up. $700 and they are in fantastic shape. Babies 8/10 or better, black with oak strip.

Cables - Will a higher gauge speaker wire provide better results? 14g, 12g, 10g?

Care to comment on MMGs vs. 1.6s for future searchers?
I went from 12s to 1.6s and the 1st thing I noticed was how much more coherent the 1.6s sounded. Then I noticed better bass, and then better other stuff.

michaelkingdom · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Nov 2012, 11:13 pm »

Okay, I've had them in my system for a few days and I think I could comment on them as I am not new to Magnepan.

There are a lot of differences between the MMG and the 1.6. I have to say that getting the 1.6s was a great move because it is basically the same speaker just much bigger. you get MORE of everything good about the MMGs. Image is larger, deeper and more "there." Bass is much more present.

Imaging- with the MMGs imaging is amazing. Great recordings are so accurate, you are watching music. With the 1.6s, once I got them into the right position which for me is tweeters outside, slightly leaned back and toed in so they cross just behind me, the imaging exactly the same as the MMGs. However, with the 1.6s the sweet spot is much larger. With the MMGs I would sit in the spot and by moving my head a few inches, the soundstage would change. The 1.6s have more room than that. The center image is stable, large, deep and is the most believable of any I have had in my room. With the 1.6s there is more sound, it is bigger, it's a wall of sound. These speakers are huge and for my 12x16 room, they are probably at the limit of where I should go size wise. However, they sound great in this room.

I use a Behringer DEQ2496 for EQ. The way my system is set up, I can easily switch between an purely analog signal and a digitally altered signal (via the Behringer). The 1.6s do amazingly well with digital eq. Even the slightest image adjustments are noticeable. I guess the word is transparent...

michaelkingdom · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Nov 2012, 10:48 am »

Update above

SteveFord · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Nov 2012, 12:47 pm »

I thought you might be pleased...

Rclark · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Dec 2012, 04:30 am »

Quote from: michaelkingdom on 9 Nov 2012, 11:13 pm

Okay, I've had them in my system for a few days and I think I could comment on them as I am not new to Magnepan.

There are a lot of differences between the MMG and the 1.6. I have to say that getting the 1.6s was a great move because it is basically the same speaker just much bigger. you get MORE of everything good about the MMGs. Image is larger, deeper and more "there." Bass is much more present.

Imaging- with the MMGs imaging is amazing. Great recordings are so accurate, you are watching music. With the 1.6s, once I got them into the right position which for me is tweeters outside, slightly leaned back and toed in so they cross just behind me, the imaging exactly the same as the MMGs. However, with the 1.6s the sweet spot is much larger. With the MMGs I would sit in the spot and by moving my head a few inches, the soundstage would change. The 1.6s have more room than that. The center image is stable, large, deep and is the most believable of any I have had in my room. With the 1.6s there is more sound, it is bigger, it's a wall of sound. These speakers are huge and for my 12x16 room, they are probably at the limit of where I should go size wise. However, they sound great in this room.

I use a Behringer DEQ2496 for EQ. The way my system is set up, I can easily switch between an purely analog signal and a digitally altered signal (via the Behringer). The 1.6s do amazingly well with digital eq. Even the slightest image adjustments are noticeable. I guess the word is transparent...

after the Magnestand mod that couple of inches of sweet spot (man I remember it, don't move your head!) pretty much becomes anywhere you want to sit, bass becomes quite powerful, everything improves a lot.

Buying up the chain is cool, but it's DEFINITELY worth looking into aftermarket options on what you already have. There is a lot of untapped potential in a Magnepan.

ajzepp · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Dec 2012, 05:16 am »

I jumped right to the 3.6s, but I spent a lot of time with the 1.6s and found them to be amazing for the money. With regard to cable, you can't trust that Steve Ford guy any further than you can punt him. Okay, just kidding. Actually I'd take his suggestions for sure. I'll also throw out the Speltz anticables. They are very inexpensive and it's the only time I've ever changed out a cable or wire and felt the difference was clear. The low end on the 3.6s became more apparent (I run them full range) and there was a bit more of a sparkle to the overall sound. That's hard to accomplish on the 3.6s, cause they are truly amazing speakers.

They also are very easy to use on the Magnepans since the wire is sort of thick, it stays very secure in the Maggie connectors. I'll also mention that I used this wire on my little AudioEngine A2s and there, too, it improved things. This cable is the main reason why I can't ever say that cables don't make a difference.

raindance · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Dec 2012, 02:55 am »

I've had about 5 pairs of MMG's over the years, a pair of MG12's, and currently have a pair of 1.5's and a pair of 1.6's. the 1.6 is a unique animal, in my opinion. It is warmer than the others I have had and has excellent mid bass, a weakness of most planars. I find them less bright than the MMG's and wayyyy less bright than the 12's. Bass is excellent. I get solid 40hz extension in my 14' x 26' x 8' room. Coherent is a good word. Be careful with placement and acoustic treatment. Using the Cardas method gave me the best results. Speakers are about 5' from the front wall and 6' apart. I sit 9' away. This gives decent imaging. They don't disappear as well as the MMG's. I also found they sound more dynamic with the tweeters on the inside. Don't toe them in too much, just a few degrees. Don't try to absorb the back wave, you lose the shimmer of cymbals. Do treat ringing in your room - in most rectangular rooms the center of each long wall rings. I have acoustic absorption mounted quite high up each wall to prevent this.

I also found that their character changes with the right amp. You need really solid control of the bass. I don't like them with tubes, they are warm enough (MMG's were spectacular with tubes).

These speakers are very transparent although the high treble does not go sky high. I find they reveal stuff in the mid range I did not hear before, like percussion. You will clearly hear each upstream component. I use a Quad 99 preamp because the tilt control lets me fix sub standard recordings, but on a great recording the best preamp is just a volume pot.

In comparison the 1.5 is lean and bright and accentuates sibilance, however they sound fine if you have not heard the 1.6. Plus they work well with tubes.

I demoed the 1.7's recently and found them brighter than the 1.6 and, to my ears, a bit tubby in the bass. But this was in a showroom, so YMMV.

Hope this is informative.

SteveFord · « **Reply #18 on:** 7 Dec 2012, 12:32 am »

I had 1.6s and 1.7s in the same room at home for a bit.
For some music I preferred the 1.6s - one Beatles song really sounded great on them and the guitar kind of vanished with the 1.7s.
I ended up choosing the 1.7s as I didn't have to crank the volume to get them to sound right.
They're keepers.

michaelkingdom · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Apr 2013, 02:54 pm »

Well, I have had the 1.6s for about four months now and I've had time to digest them. I have a feeling that my impressions are not traditional but neither are Magnepans themselves. Originally, I started off with the MMGs which I really loved. I had "moments" with them where I learned about how amazing audio reproduction can be. Above everything, what I really like about the MMGs was the crisp sound and pinpoint imaging. When I moved to the 1.6s I missed the crispness. This is not necessarily a criticism of the 1.6s as it seems to be a general evolution of speaker companies to get crisper highs with successive models. Anyhow, that magic that I was looking for was not there. The 1.6s to have many amazing attributes including a fuller sound, larger sweet spot, larger soundstage and the "wall of sound" effect - as these speakers are literally walls. I very much enjoy them but they don't captivate me the same way the MMGs did despite all the extras they bring to the table.

So, I am moving onto a set of 1.7s. I will be curious to see if there are differences that will bring me closer to my MMG love.