newbie needs help

skenderbeu · « **on:** 6 Jul 2012, 07:17 pm »

OK , I want to build a system around my integrated amp. I have only one pre-in to play with on the amplifier. Would I be able to connect a DAC and how if so(DAC options)? What are my digital source options? Can I connect Roku ? If I connect a DAC with a remote which component controls the volume and other functions ?

Thank you for your help

srb · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Jul 2012, 07:50 pm »

When you say you have only one pre-in to play with on the amplifier I assume you mean all of the inputs are used for other analog sources except for one? As long as it is a line level input and not a phono input you are good to go.

If the DAC you choose has remote volume and input selection, you would of course use the DAC remote (or a universal remote) to select inputs while the integrated amplifier has the DAC input selected.

Which volume control you use has a lot to do with how the DAC volume control is implemented and in the end, how it sounds to you. Digital volume controls can reduce resolution and dynamic range depending on how many bits the volume control uses, how it is dithered, etc.

Some DACs have an analog volume control which in some cases could sound better than a digital one, but most people who have a DAC feeding a preamp or integrated usually end up setting the DAC volume control to maximum (or bypassed, if that is an option) and control the volume with the preamp or integrated, unless the output level is too high, then they might leave the DAC volume control slightly attentuated or turned down so that the digital sources are not louder than the other analog sources.

The lowest cost remote controlled DAC would have to be the on-sale-discontinued Emotiva XDA-1 which has remote input selection and an on-chip analog volume control, and although you can find even better sounding more expensive remote controlled DACs, it does sound pretty good for just $200.

Other considerations might be if you are connecting a computer through USB, will you need or want resolution higher than standard CD 16-bit/44.1 KHz, as some DACs, like the XDA-1, have a 16/48 limitation on the USB input although that limitation seems to be going away on newly released DAC models which have 24/96 or 24/192 capability on the USB input.

If you connected a streaming player like the Roku (or any other device that processes Dolby Digital or DTS), you will need to be able to set the device to output 2 channel stereo, as most 2 channel stereo DACs cannot accept these multi-channel formats.

Steve

richidoo · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jul 2012, 08:07 pm »

Welcome to Audio Circle!

Connect your DACs analog output RCA phono jacks (often red and white) to the amp input. Connect your Roku digital output (labelled coax or digital, or maybe even toslink optical) to the DAC with digital coax or toslink optical cable. Coaxial SPDIF digital connection is usually superior sound quality than optical.

You have to experiment to determine whether to use your amp's volume control or the DACs volume control, one of them will sound better as it turns the volume down. And one will be easier to use than the other too, like better remote, or more responsive or finer adjustment. The Roku might also have a volume control, but it will be the lesser sound quality of the three choices. If you decide to use the amp volume, then turn the DAC and Roku volumes all the way up and leave them there.

srb · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jul 2012, 08:19 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 6 Jul 2012, 08:07 pm

Connect your Roku digital output (labelled coax or digital, or maybe even toslink optical) to the DAC with digital coax or toslink optical cable. Coaxial SPDIF digital connection is usually superior sound quality than optical.

Looking at the latest Roku models, they appear to only have the option of either an HDMI digital connection or an analog connection for audio, unlike the Apple TV or WD TV Live streamers, which do have separate optical S/PDIF outputs. Unless you have a Roku model that does have a separate digital audio output, other options for connecting Roku digital audio to an external DAC would include:

1. Using an HDMI switcher/de-embedder like the one disccused in this topic, http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=107927.msg1109042;topicseen#new, to extract an optical or coaxial S/PDIF 2 channel stereo output from the HDMI input.

2. You have an optical or coaxial S/PDIF output on your TV that can be connected to the DAC, and either the Roku or the TV can be configured to output 2 channel stereo.

Steve

skenderbeu · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Jul 2012, 10:12 pm »

Great info, i really appreciate it guys. Sometimes it gets overwhelming with the amount of information and choice to sort out things.My Roku is the 1st gen so i have the optical output. Do all the DAC act as preamplifiers also?Will the videos's audio improve with the DAc? So am I to understand that it doesnt matter whether the DAC has a remote ? I am assuming the amp does

Thanks a lot to all

srb · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Jul 2012, 11:05 pm »

Quote from: skenderbeu on 6 Jul 2012, 10:12 pm

Do all the DAC act as preamplifiers also? Will the videos's audio improve with the DAc? So am I to understand that it doesnt matter whether the DAC has a remote ? I am assuming the amp does

No, it varies from DAC only to preamp/dacs with a wide variety of features.

Peachtree Audio has the DAC*iT which has 3 digital inputs with remote controlled input selection. mute and power (but no volume control or analog inputs).

Wyred4Sound has the DAC-2 which has 7 digital inputs with remote controlled input selection, volume, balance, phase, HT bypass and power (but no analog inputs).

Benchmark has the DAC1 Pre which has 5 digital inputs, 1 analog input, volume control and 2 headphone outputs. The DAC1 HDR adds remote input selection, volume, soft mute, dim and power.

I believe the majority of DACs that have an analog input (like the Benchmark DAC1) just apply a passive volume control, where units that offer more analog inputs are often active preamps (with gain) first and foremost, with either standard or optional internal DAC added.

Some people use a volume controlled DAC direct into a power amplifier so they need a volume control. Others feel that the sound sometimes has more body if it goes through an active preamp first, in which case you don't need a volume control on the DAC.

I think the audio component of video sources can be improved with a better DAC, but depending on the source and encoding, don't realize the same degree of improvement as computer or disc player audio sources.

Steve

skenderbeu · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Jul 2012, 11:37 pm »

Thanks SRB for taking the time with this.

I believe the majority of DACs that have an analog input (like the Benchmark DAC1) just apply a passive volume control, where units that offer more analog inputs are often active preamps (with gain) first and foremost, with either standard or optional internal DAC added

So, what would be my best bet a Preamp DAC ? I have look into Lavry,Benchmark,Wyred4Sound , Bel Canto but I can't really make my mind as to which one would be the best purchase.

srb · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 12:14 am »

Because you're using an integrated amp, you have analog inputs and likely a preamp gain stage within (most integrateds do but there are some that are basically a passive volume control with switched inputs in front of a power amp). But it doesn't sound like you would need a volume control or analog input(s) on the DAC. One of the big questions would be is remote control input selection a necessity for you (which if yes, would eliminate a number of DACs right off the bat)?

All of the DACs you've mentioned are $1K and up - what is the upper budget limit? What are the source, integrated amp and speakers that make up your system?

Lastly, have you identified how many of each type of digital input (USB, coax, optical) you will need for the forseeable future?

Your question of which one would be the best purchase is the question of the ages and everyone will have a different opinion. But knowing your existing system, needed DAC features and input requirements will help in making those recommendations more meaningful.

Steve

skenderbeu · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 02:05 am »

I think the optical and the usb would be used but i do lke the option of at leadt one analog. Then again the future seems to be changing faster nowadays . Wouldn't i be able to change inputs through the amp? It is a Cayin tube amp. The sources , for nOw, would be a mac computer and Roku.

srb · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 02:20 am »

The DAC has an analog output which gets connected to an unused input on the Cayin amp. You can use the Cayin amp to select between the DAC input and any other analog inputs, but to select between the Mac and Roku inputs on the DAC, you will need to use the input selector on the DAC, whether manual or remote control.

Steve

skenderbeu · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 10:57 am »

I figured that right after I wrote it. So,as long as I can control remotely the volume from my amp I do not need to remote for the DAC.

If my amplifier has only analog RCA inputs 2 wire and the DAC has no analog RCA inputs ,would I be able to connect them ?

How about this one ?

http://mytekdigital.com/download_library/stereo192-dsd-dac_new_product_release_july_2011.pdf

JohnR · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 04:15 pm »

What amp is it?

skenderbeu · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 04:31 pm »

Cayin A100-T

srb · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 05:01 pm »

The Cayin A100-T is a very nice tube integrated amplifier. It has 4 analog inputs, one of which is a "Pre-In" input. This is also sometimes referred to an HT Bypass input.

The Pre-In input bypasses the volume control and is used to connect a stereo preamplifier or an HT receiver's Front L/R pre-out channels, either of which would control the volume for that input, essentially using the amp as a power amp. In other words, the Pre-In input is "full volume" and cannot be used to connect an ordinary analog line source.

So that leaves 3 inputs, one of which would be used to connect the output of your DAC (which would have several digital sources connected to it). After connecting the DAC, you would now have 2 analog inputs remaining. You would only need a DAC that has an analog input if you have more than 2 other analog sources and need to acommodate a third.

Steve

JohnR · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 05:06 pm »

Steve said it all

OK, this amp has three line-level inputs. So you can connect up to three source components to it. These connections ("Aux, Tuner, CD" according to their webpage) will have volume control on them.

The "pre in" input might be a direct connection to the power amp, but the manual says nothing about it. If it is, no volume control on that one, so be careful.

You don't actually have the amp yet?

You would connect the output of the DAC to one of the inputs (2xRCA) of the amp.

skenderbeu · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 05:23 pm »

Quote from: srb on 7 Jul 2012, 05:01 pm

The Cayin A100-T is a very nice tube integrated amplifier. It has 4 analog inputs, one of which is a "Pre-In" input. This is also sometimes referred to an HT Bypass input.

The Pre-In input bypasses the volume control and is used to connect a stereo preamplifier or an HT receiver's Front L/R channels, either of which would control the volume for that input, essentially using the amp as a power amp. In other words, that input is "full volume" and cannot be used to connect an ordinary analog line source.

So that leaves 3 inputs, one of which would be used to connect the output of your DAC (which would have several digital sources connected to it). After connecting the DAC, you would now have 2 analog inputs remaining. You would only need a DAC that has an analog input if you have more than 2 other analog sources and need to acommodate a third.

Steve

So,would the Mytek DAC I mentioned work for me?

srb · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 05:57 pm »

Quote from: skenderbeu on 7 Jul 2012, 05:23 pm

So,would the Mytek DAC I mentioned work for me?

Sure, most any DAC would work if it has the combination of digital inputs you need. You wouldn't necessarily need the "-P" Preamp version of the Mytek Stereo192 DSD DAC unless you have already used the remaining 2 available inputs on the Cayin amp and have a third analog source, as previously mentioned.

The Mytek is a little more sophisticated than many DACs as evidenced by a FireWire input, two USB inputs, Word Clock In/Out and DSD capability. However, it only has one optical Toslink input and one coaxial input. Devices like disc players usually have both coax and optical, but many consumer devices like your Roku, Apple TV, WD TV Live, cable boxes, DVRs, TVs, etc. may only have an optical output. So you will have to determine if it has the number and type of inputs you will need.

If you search AudioCircle for Mytek you can find some posts about this DAC. There are also several topics about it on www.computeraudiophile.com.

Steve

skenderbeu · « **Reply #17 on:** 7 Jul 2012, 07:57 pm »

Quote

The Mytek is a little more sophisticated than many DACs as evidenced by a FireWire input, two USB inputs, Word Clock In/Out and DSD capability. However, it only has one optical Toslink input and one coaxial input. Devices like disc players usually have both coax and optical, but many consumer devices like your Roku, Apple TV, WD TV Live, cable boxes, DVRs, TVs, etc. may only have an optical output. So you will have to determine if it has the number and type of inputs you will need.

If you search AudioCircle for Mytek you can find some posts about this DAC. There are also several topics about it on www.computeraudiophile.com.

Steve

I probably will only need one optical input .I use Roku pretty much for everything audio and video until something better comes along.

Any other DAC I should look into besides Emotiva ?

skenderbeu · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Jul 2012, 05:08 pm »

So,I am trying the Mytek 192 DSD DAC . I am using the oprical input for now .I was wondering if i have anothert connecting possibilty ? Ideas ?

Atlplasma · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Jul 2012, 07:03 pm »

Post this question in the High Rez circle. You will get your answer.