[HAL]

Since I built the MS-1 for my music setup it had to be quiet and small.  It is USB interfaced to my DAC, so had to be in my room with the system.  Ambient noise level is 16dBA and the size is 7-5/8"W x 3-1/4"H x 5-1/4"D.  Makes it pretty easy to put where you have room.   The wood top also helps with noise reduction by damping the chassis and having a larger opening for reduced back pressure on the fan.  The only moving parts are the small quiet fan and external 2.5" drive.  I suggest checking sizing and noise levels on any solution to make sure it will work for the user's room. 

[Bob in St. Louis]

I'm a "computer novice" as well. I wanted an out of the box solution. It was not too hard to plug in a fully configured PC and install JRiver. The hardest part was to make sure JRiver was correctly configured for the best quality sound and to learn the ins and out of JRiver............

Same here. I think I'll like the PC and JRiver path I've chosen. Especially when the bugs are all worked out.
Seems like the worst thing with JRiver, is there are TOO many buttons, thereby making the learning curve harder than it should be. Some things that I'd consider "standard", either aren't there, or they're hidden under a term I've not heard.

The online support is like using their graphic user interface. It's spread out and hard to follow. It's also full of links that take you to threads that are, in some cases, several years old and they don't apply on the current version.

But past that, I think it might be alright. I would hesitate to give it a very high recommendation for a guy that considers himself a computer novice though.

Bob

[trackball02]

I agree with the concerns of heat and noise with a PC. I did not opt for the fastest processor in order to conserve power and reduce heat. I'm quite happy that my PC is very quiet and cool running.

I found Computer Audiophile to be helpful for JRiver 17 optimization:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/436-jriver-media-center-17-detail/

Still took a bit of fiddling, but once the output is set, no additional interaction is required.

[JLM]

Ted:  way too many big words for me   

Bob:  you said "bugs"   

trackball02:  you said "fiddling"  (don't want to go there at all)

jkelly:  vortex isn't friendly enough for me   

Scott:  thanks for the redirect   

Honestly you guys are way more tech saavy than you realize.  What the industry needs is a glitch-free simple device to bridge everyday computers with audio.

[django11]

I'm a "computer novice" as well. I wanted an out of the box solution. It was not too hard to plug in a fully configured PC and install JRiver. The hardest part was to make sure JRiver was correctly configured for the best quality sound and to learn the ins and out of JRiver as well as install the PC driver for my Eastern Electric DAC. JRiver has very good online support. I use Google Chrome and JRiver for my internet radio. I was up and running in no time.

I agree.  J River on PC to usb dac to amp.  The only challenge was getting "bit perfect" out of JRiver. 

[JohnR]

What the industry needs is a glitch-free simple device to bridge everyday computers with audio.

I think that's what the Bryston BDP-1 was intended to be. Although the user community seems to be making it complicated - no personal experience, just what I am reading.

Even with something like that, one issue is the media, you can't buy much music on digital memory sticks. Not like you can buy a CD and just stick it in the tray. So you have to download it, or rip it, and start to deal with disk drives, backups, etc etc.

It will be interesting to see how it all looks in a few years time.

PS thanks for the kind words on my article

[eclein]

Ted:  way too many big words for me   

Bob:  you said "bugs"   

trackball02:  you said "fiddling"  (don't want to go there at all)

jkelly:  vortex isn't friendly enough for me   

Scott:  thanks for the redirect   

Honestly you guys are way more tech saavy than you realize.  What the industry needs is a glitch-free simple device to bridge everyday computers with audio.

Glitches and computers go hand in hand.
 I'm lazy and the Squeezebox is easy....LOL. I think when I finally get a Vortexbox or similar I'll jump because it does sound better when its done well.
 Great thread!!!

[toddbagwell]

if simple and straight forward is the goal, then I'd go with a linux-based device from a company such as the previously mentioned Aurilati server.

I believe Wyred4Sound http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/58441 has one as well.

Meridian-sooloos generally gets good reviews for its user interface as well. [but, imo, it is very expensive]

any combination of PC or MAC that I'm aware of will require some tweaking and software installation to get things up and running, which it sounds as if you'd like to avoid.

and as someone else mentioned, don't forget that some CD's/DVD-A/DVD/SACD will need to be ripped to get going.

Later,
Todd

[mdconnelly]

...
Honestly you guys are way more tech saavy than you realize.  What the industry needs is a glitch-free simple device to bridge everyday computers with audio.

IMHO, the problem is not with the technology, it's with the state of the music industry.  Today, you have to either buy & rip CDs and/or buy online and download.   With either choice, you still have to decide format (MP3, flac, etc...). Then there's music tagging, image handling and overall management of your music library.  All of that comes before you ever decide what you will use for playback and how you'll get it to sound good.  We're living in the land of dinosaurs when it comes to the state of digital music servers & playback - at least in terms of quality plug-and-play solutions for the novice user.

I started using Squeezeboxes (SB3, Duet and Touch) quite awhile ago. You're absolutely correct - there for awhile it was a real pain and steep learning curve.  But the technology has settled down (and I've become far more wizened , so it all seems quite stable of late.  Hard to beat a Squeezebox solution for sound quality and price.  The ability to control it all from my iPhone, iPad or any android device is icing on the cake.

I think if I only needed a single system playback, I might opt for a PC or Mac based solution as many have proposed above.  But it's still not trivial to set it up and optimize for sound quality.  And, realistically, whatever platform you go with will invariably change and evolve.

[ted_b]

JLM,
I think you are overthinking this.  The Squeezebox family, the Bryston BDP-1, my Auraliti PK90USB...they could not be more simple to operate.  Setup takes a few minutes, yes...nothing more than setting up a DVR with your local cable station, and waiting for it to load programs per se.

Glitches will exist, but mostly due to wanting to connect wirelessly (not my recommendation...wireless is good for the ipads, etc, but not good uninterrupted glitch-free audio IMO) or wanting to push the envelope.

Music storage is you biggest issue.  Ripping and tagging your music is the biggest hassle, but it comes with the territory (computer).  DB PowerAmp is flawless.

[whell]

Its a combination of factors. 

Music Industry - The music industry doesn't help itself at all.  Name for me another industry that goes out of its way to avoid giving customers what they want as much as the music industry!  Not to mention hot buttons like loudness wars, distribution restrictions, etc., and you've got an industry which doesn't hide its contempt for consumers all that well.

Technology - one of the reasons the music industry can continue to get away with minimizing its distribution stream.  For the average non-tech savvy consumer, configuring a computer for bit-perfect playback is a daunting task.  Connecting a computer to a home stereo system isn't something that most consumers could do comfortably.  I tend to think of technology in terms of my wife's capabilities.  If she can't intuitively figure it out, then the technology is either doomed, or doomed to a niche. 

Music - trouble in paradise here too.  Not that much happening in the music biz if you're a 50+ year old with discretionary income.  Sure, there's some new music that has some appeal.  But it should be obvious by now why HD Tracks biggest sellers are retreads of classic recordings.  (Just my opinion here, folks.  Not trying to start a flame war or pass judgement on anyone else's musical tastes.)

[trackball02]

I also added a Squeezebox Touch to my set up which is hooked into my DAC. Great player with a really nice ipad controller. Since I can access all of the music files on my PC via Squeezebox , I can bypass JRiver com completely when playing music. Just turn on the Squeezebox via ipad remote, switch on the DAC, and the PC is powered up in the background but don't have to touch it, and you are good to go.

I still use JRiver to rip CDs.  My big dilemma is should I rip in WAV vs. FLAC?

[JEaton]

My big dilemma is should I rip in WAV vs. FLAC?

With the Squeezebox system, there's no reason to use WAV. You can easily stream files in WAV (PCM) even when they're stored as FLAC.

[JLM]

Olive and Sooloos seem to do it right.  But Olive seems a bit overpriced, reportedly has poor service, and marks their files to prevent reuse.  And Sooloos is just too expensive.   

Ted,

Wired internet connection ain't gonna happen for me.  I've never had a DVR.  Bryston too expensive.  Previous SB had waay too many "glitches".  "Simple to operate" is in the eye of the beholder.  Again, I see you as a major techhead, not like the majority of 50 somethings as mentioned with disposable income who have enjoyed audio for decades.   

Actually I don't see music storage as much of an issue.

But maybe you're right.   

whell,

My points exactly.      The industry has been trying to adapt to lifestyle/portable/desktop styles to be friendlier, but what about making it grandmother friendly (no slam of grandmothers intended) 

trackball02,

Yes I liked the SB when it worked, but why put up with glitches as all when my 30 year old CD player technology just keeps working? 

[JohnR]

JLM- there is actually a simple solution to this. Whatever computer you are typing on now... use that! Do your ripping, set up your library, experiment with DACs. Then when you are ready you can buy a dedicated music machine, or decide it's not for you.

[ted_b]

JLM,
I'm a 58 yr old semi-retired software sales guy.  Yeah, some disposable income, and some time on my hands...but tech geek?  Very funny.  I can't write one line of code.

What glitches did you have with a Squeezebox?

[trackball02]

JLM, Having a music server is far advanced compared to a CD player. Why just play a CD when one can rip it and have your entire library at your finger tips? Besides, you ought to check out the JRiver Theater View, which grabs pictures related to the artist being played and displays on the monitor. Very entertaining. Also, I am listening to less and less CDs and more downloaded files, hi res files that a CD can't even touch and internet audio streams including MOG and Pandora. After I set up my PC, I packed up my CD player and have not looked back.

I really do not have any glitches with my SB. Even the application to play 192 hi resolution files installed easily.

Concerning WAV vs FLAC, I still prefer JRiver when playing audio files rather than SB. I've read articles and discussions on how WAV sounds superior to FLAC. I'm not entirely convinced. I'm wondering what everybody else is doing?

[JLM]

JohnR,

That's funny (I'm using a used business PC with 1 GB RAM and 100 GB HD), but had ripped using EAC/FLAC back when I tried a SB in 2006.

Ted,

You said software (and by all your techie postings no lightweight), so you lack the "grandmother" perspective.  I've programmed in basic and Fortran (have a degree in engineering, all in the 70's) but navigating computers these days is not a hobby IMO, it's a PITA.  Typically support is a joke, making all this stuff expensive boat anchors.  At work, support amounts to IT telling to constantly reboot, leave the machines on over the weekend for yet another software change, swapping out machines with no notice (so we lose files), taking weeks to respond to a help request, and then telling us it's fixed when it ain't. 

No audio shop out here in the woods knows anything about a music server, computer geeks never heard of a DAC, and no one will walk me through it every time I experience a "glitch".  Not "grandmother" friendly.

[JLM]

trackball02,

I had a modded SB (not Bolder).  The concept was totally cool (when it worked), the glitches were totally not (weeks without music). 

I've heard people move away from SB after enough fustrations/limitations.  But the files are generic (WAV/FLAC) so open to different options in the future.

Assuming I could get it to work, I'd enjoy the better resolution and internet streaming.  The price is right, even modded.  But I do need EQ in my main rig, so maybe a mini would make more sense there and a SB in the living room system.

[ted_b]

JLM,
I am now convinced you are looking for excuses.    I said "software sales guy".  Sales (and sales management)!  Not a techy, never was.  I know DACs, I know hirez music, I don't know code. 

But if you are daunted by any glitch, then stay with spinning discs.  Anything with the word "computer" in it is not for you.