[ricardojoa]

Rick, i got an idea and im going to shot it at you.
Can the tempesta woofer be substittuted with excel magnesium 7? What im think is, the curved cabinet will have the acutton 3 inch mid and two excel magnesium in a sealed configuration to be  augmented with a sub. The raal tweeter will have its own dedicated cube enclosure that sit on top of the main cabinet. That needs to be custome made. Basically im trying to configure the tempesta as small as possible but with higher sensitivity and the exceld chooen because they are cheaper then then the illuminatior. I think the revelator might be a good option.
The real question is, can the raal be built in a seperate enclosure? That will  put the raal a bit further way from the mid.

[Rick Craig]

Rick, i got an idea and im going to shot it at you.
Can the tempesta woofer be substittuted with excel magnesium 7? What im think is, the curved cabinet will have the acutton 3 inch mid and two excel magnesium in a sealed configuration to be  augmented with a sub. The raal tweeter will have its own dedicated cube enclosure that sit on top of the main cabinet. That needs to be custome made. Basically im trying to configure the tempesta as small as possible but with higher sensitivity and the exceld chooen because they are cheaper then then the illuminatior. I think the revelator might be a good option.
The real question is, can the raal be built in a seperate enclosure? That will  put the raal a bit further way from the mid.

With the crossover point to the RAAL it needs to be close to the mid for the best vertical integration.

[ricardojoa]

With the crossover point to the RAAL it needs to be close to the mid for the best vertical integration.

Thats what i thought too.
How about excel woofer? Can these be substituted.  I like the iluminator but the are really expensive. Any other good woofer for sealed enclosure without breaking the bank?

[Rick Craig]

Thats what i thought too.
How about excel woofer? Can these be substituted.  I like the iluminator but the are really expensive. Any other good woofer for sealed enclosure without breaking the bank?

I have some 7" Wavecor woofers which are a good choice and less expensive.

[ricardojoa]

I have some 7" Wavecor woofers which are a good choice and less expensive.

Cool,
was a tempesta with wavecor woofer ever produced? How much saving are we talking about? 
How far can the woofer be installed away from the mid? I would guess that the closer the better.
Also Rick, what is the deal with low Q on the sealed version? Why low Q over the .707?
And if i wanted to increase the Q by adding mass inside the cabinet, would there be any need to tweak in the xover?
Thanks

[Rick Craig]

Cool,
was a tempesta with wavecor woofer ever produced? How much saving are we talking about? 
How far can the woofer be installed away from the mid? I would guess that the closer the better.
Also Rick, what is the deal with low Q on the sealed version? Why low Q over the .707?
And if i wanted to increase the Q by adding mass inside the cabinet, would there be any need to tweak in the xover?
Thanks

No the Tempesta only uses the Illuminator because it is the best 7" driver for it. Why do you ask so many unrelated questions on different forums?

[ricardojoa]

No the Tempesta only uses the Illuminator because it is the best 7" driver for it. Why do you ask so many unrelated questions on different forums?

Well not unrelated. I was asking about the low q on the sealed tempesta. Everything i ask is perteining to the tempesta. i know there is a member who had built the tempesta with different cabinets so thats why i also ask about how far could the woofer be installed. I am actually in the kit though. Excuse me for sounding like im prying your secret.

[navin]

Well not unrelated.

A speaker is a sum or parts. If you change the woofer you need often to change the mid and tweeter too.

Ricardo, in my younger years I have designed many speakers and one of the first things a designer considers is that all the components he is using are utillised fully. For example using the Wavecor with the Accuton would a waste of much of the Accuton's abilities.

The Wavecor is not a bad driver but for the Accuton mid the "right" driver would be the Illuminator, an Accuton woofer, etc.. .

In my view the Wavecor woofer for example might be more suited for a Morel MDM 55, ScanSpeak 10F or the Wavecor 4" etc. Then again these mids might be better suited to the Fountek Neo Ribbon, ScanSpeak ring radiator or Eton Symphony.

[ricardojoa]

A speaker is a sum or parts. If you change the woofer you need often to change the mid and tweeter too.

Well Navin, im not asking Rick to substitute a 15 woofer. I dont see why a midrange and tweeter need to change. Can you elaborate?

Ricardo, in my younger years I have designed many speakers and one of the first things a designer considers is that all the components he is using are utillised fully. For example using the Wavecor with the Accuton would a waste of much of the Accuton's abilities.

A speaker designer needs to consider its goal and the tradeoff he is willing to forgo.

The Wavecor is not a bad driver but for the Accuton mid the "right" driver would be the Illuminator, an Accuton woofer, etc.. .

again, trade off. Sure the SS iluminator are wonderfull speaker, but i think the Excel could work exceptionally well maybe less bass. Rick uses alot on his desings.

In my view the Wavecor woofer for example might be more suited for a Morel MDM 55, ScanSpeak 10F or the Wavecor 4" etc. Then again these mids might be better suited to the Fountek Neo Ribbon, ScanSpeak ring radiator or Eton Symphony.

Well you r just limiting your design.

But thanks

[navin]

Well Navin, im not asking Rick to substitute a 15 woofer. I dont see why a midrange and tweeter need to change. Can you elaborate?

A speaker designer needs to consider its goal and the tradeoff he is willing to forgo.
again, trade off. Sure the SS iluminator are wonderfull speaker, but i think the Excel could work exceptionally well maybe less bass.

The Excel should work well the the Accuton (albeit with a little less bass). I was only refering to the Wavecor. From what I know, the Accuton is far more revealing than the Wavecor and when you have 2 drivers operating over the same range (crossover frequency +/- 1 octave) you want them to be equal to the same tasks.

The Excel woofer is not significantly cheaper than the Illuminators (madisound prices are $225 and $325 respectively) so why would you want to replace the Illuminators (which offer a bit more bass than the Excel)?

[ricardojoa]

One thing to consider is that both the revelator and excel seems to indicate from the spec are more suitable for sealed cabinet. I may be wrong.

[JohnR]

Ricardo, is your goal to reduce cost or increase sensitivity? (Or both?)

[ricardojoa]

Ricardo, is your goal to reduce cost or increase sensitivity? (Or both?)

My goal is to have something small just like the tempesta with high sensitty (88) but is going to be difficult to get those db up without adding another woofer which means another cabinet, or i can go with PHL, but i prefer to use what Rick have been using in his desings so i will forgo the high sensitivity. I wanted to have a diferent cabinet look though. I am thinking two piece cabinet, one for the tweeter and mid section and one for the woofer. I want the top section to be as slim as possible. Im not sure if that even make sense, the woofer will have to sit a little further from the mid since it is two piece cabinet, but unless it is installed close to the edge, that might bring the gap down.
I think my problem is that i want something unique.

[jonbee]

My goal is to have something small just like the tempesta with high sensitty (88) but is going to be difficult to get those db up without adding another woofer which means another cabinet, or i can go with PHL, but i prefer to use what Rick have been using in his desings so i will forgo the high sensitivity. I wanted to have a diferent cabinet look though. I am thinking two piece cabinet, one for the tweeter and mid section and one for the woofer. I want the top section to be as slim as possible. Im not sure if that even make sense, the woofer will have to sit a little further from the mid since it is two piece cabinet, but unless it is installed close to the edge, that might bring the gap down.
I think my problem is that i want something unique.

It sounds like you need to make your own cabinets to get the look you want. I'm sure Rick can work up the crossover, etc.
That said, I think you may find that all the trouble making a small enclosure for the mids and tweeters doesn't get you much sonically. There are just as many truly top notch speakers with rectangular baffes as not- the Tempesta as it is compares very well to the best speakers at 2-3 times the price with more elaborate cabinets, and other speakers, such as the Daedalus, big Harbeths, Audio Note, Magico, and MANY others use rectangular baffles with great results. Smaller baffles also mean crossover changes, and can introduce sonic properties that you may not like as well. The Tempesta as it is is a very well balanced, mature design.
Sometimes the simplest answer is the best.

[navin]

I think my problem is that i want something unique.

How unique?
something like these?
http://proclaimaudioworks.com/proclaim.htm
or these
http://www.yankodesign.com/2009/06/26/woofer-speaker-tweeter-all-live-together/

Companies like Selah, Daedalus, etc.. are unqiue enough. By that I mean they are not common like KEF, Focal, B&W, Monitor Audio etc.

They also offer you a wider variety of veneer choices (if you want them to build the box). Sometimes what is unique in one country is not in another. For example burl is not common in the US but it has become an eyesore in India. The latest fad here is smoked veneers.

[ricardojoa]

Well those are definetly very unusual but i doubt the tempest can be configure that way..

To Jonbee, i dont disagree with you. The tempesta is in good form, if i can can get a dffferent look that would be great.

[navin]

Well those are definetly very unusual but i doubt the tempest can be configure that way..

To Jonbee, i dont disagree with you. The tempesta is in good form, if i can can get a dffferent look that would be great.

Ricardo, what sorts of "look" are you looking for? Any thoughts?

[srb]

The tempesta is in good form, if i can can get a dffferent look that would be great.

I am waiting for Rick to come back with information about CNC horizontallly stacked cabinets that he mentioned as a possibility of being able to offer (Baltic Birch, or better yet, Bamboo Ply?).  I think that would be enough of a more unique custom look that might also offer some small performance benefits.

Steve

[ricardojoa]

Ricardo, what sorts of "look" are you looking for? Any thoughts?

Well, the PA curved cabinet are quiet nice, but they are all over in every design from DIY and many others. I think a shape similar to bowling pin, something with a fat bottom and slim top would be cool. I might ask signature audiolabs to desing one.

[Rick Craig]

I am waiting for Rick to come back with information about CNC horizontallly stacked cabinets that he mentioned as a possibility of being able to offer (Baltic Birch, or better yet, Bamboo Ply?).  I think that would be enough of a more unique custom look that might also offer some small performance benefits.

Steve

Sorry for the delay but I had the CNC shop cut some prototype pieces so we could accurately estimate the cabinet cost. The bamboo ply could be used but the inner layers are stacked vertically so it won't give you the same look (plus the material cost is quite a bit higher). The Tempesta stacked ply baltic birch version is $4,295/pr. (includes magnetic grilles, clear finish, and shipping to the mainland USA). The Verita in the same cabinet is $3,595/pr. and includes all of the above as well. I also plan to add the Tempesta Extreme with this option as a single cabinet floorstander. Pricing on that is yet to be determined.