[dduval]

Just a quick question, I assume there is a difference between the 2 tweeters, assuming the change to Raal tweeters was to improve sound quality. So, is there really that much difference? Would one really notice?

Just wondering since there are a couple HT3's with the G 2 tweeter on the used market.
Also, are the HT3 with G2's 8 ohm or still 4 ohm?
Thanks in advance.

Dana

[Warpdrv]

The G2 is still a fantastic tweeter....   

Both Nuance's RT - ST and TJHUB HT2-TL's have them on their relics.... LOL

If I had some Salk speakers that had the G2's, even owning the RAAL on my SS - M7's it wouldn't bother me one bit and I wouldn't be looking to upgrade. they are relatively close in comparison. They are worth the savings of picking up a used set.... 

I believe that the power specs remain the same with either tweeter.

[dduval]

Thanks much Warp, appreciate the feedback.

Dana

[martyo]

Hi. I have the HT3's with the G2 and my brother has the HT2-TL with the RAAL. I love the RAAL, and always comment to my brother how wonderful it is. But I'm never home listening to the HT3's jonesing for the RAAL's and bummed that I have the G2's. I really like the HT2-TL's too but other than the RAAL, the HT3s are better. They need a lot of power but you can hear the difference using seperate drivers for the bass and mids versus sharing the same drivers in addition to playing lower.

[Warpdrv]

Certainly sir....

Both those gentlemen are local to me and part of our SE WI GTG crew, which I believe I am the founding member of said affiliation....   

We have had many comparisons of all our different brands of speakers over the last few years and their speakers are the reason I made the move to the SoundScapes.....      I can promise you that you will be in no way disappointed.

Keep in mind that the HT3's were at one point and time Top Dawg in the Salk lineup for a reason... 

[TJHUB]

Actually the "relics" Warp is talking about have the LCY tweeters, not the G2's.  I've never heard the G2's, but I've heard the RAAL's a couple of times; once in my own home with the SS10's.  I think I hear what the fuss is about with the RAAL tweeters, but I'm not looking to replace my LCY's and I thought I wanted to  before hearing them.  I will admit that I'm alone in my camp of not preferring the RAAL's to the LCY's.  To me, the RAAL tweeter comes off as a bit lean for me.  YMMV.

[Warpdrv]

Ha.....  well I stand corrected....   

BTW for what its worth...   Dennis Murphy, the crossover designer, says the LCY and the G2 ribbon tweeter sound very similar, but the LCY is physically smaller, allowing better spacing between drivers in an MTM layout.

And I get what you mean on the difference between the RAAL and the LCY tweeters...    They have a bit more airyness to them - which some may or may not prefer....    both are fantastic IMO...   

[texas steve]

so can you change out the tweeters on the HT3s or is the size/ohm different?  and - what about the sound?

[dduval]

I'd be curious to know why Jim went to the raals in lieu of the G2 to begin with, why change what was once the flag ship of the Salk line? Not questioning the strategy, but I'm sure Jim had a very good reason...

[texas steve]

Jim???

so can you change out the tweeters on the HT3s or is the size/ohm different?  and - what about the sound?

[TJHUB]

I'd be curious to know why Jim went to the raals in lieu of the G2 to begin with, why change what was once the flag ship of the Salk line? Not questioning the strategy, but I'm sure Jim had a very good reason...

I know Jim, and many others, find the RAAL to be one of the best tweeters made.  It does have a clarity and smoothness to it that is attractive.  I just feel it's a bit too lean for me.

texas steve:

As far as upgrading to the RAAL, my guess is that it would not be worth the cost.  The RAAL tweeter has a baffle of different dimension than the G2, which would require modding the speaker.  Then the crossover would need replacement/modification.  I'm certain Jim would recommend that the gains are far less than the cost.  You'd be better off selling and buying new.

 

[Nuance]

Jim and Dennis switched to the RAAL for a reason, fellas.  The LCY and G2 are great, but the RAAL is as close to perfection as I've heard. YMMV and to each their own. 

With that said, if you already have an "old" Salk speaker with a LCY or G2, don't sweat it.  But if you're placing a new order that RAAL will be the icing on the cake. 

[jsalk]

A few thoughts...

A little over 10 years ago, I built my first pair of speakers with a ribbon tweeter.  It was the G2.  I immediately fell in with the "air" and transparency of this ribbon.  There weren't many speaker builders using ribbons at the time.  But I was hooked. 

Just prior to that, I had also built a pair of Ellis 1801's and fell in love with the Seas Excel W18 midwoofers.  Since Dennis Murphy designed the crossover for the 1801's, I emailed him to say that I thought that the G2 and the W18 would be a wonderful combination.  He emailed back to say that if I built a speaker with that combination, he would be happy to do the crossover.  How could I turn that down?  That speaker became the Veracity HT1, our very first design. Since not that many other speaker builders were using ribbons at the time, this design generated a lot of buzz.  Speaker building was just a hobby for us at the time, but we kept getting emails from people asking if we could build a pair for them (and we did).

A few years later we were developing an MTM design (the HT2's) and a new ribbon called the LCY allowed closer spacing of the woofers than did the G2.  So we began using this tweeter as well.

When we began work on the SoundScapes, RAAL just came on the horizon.  We were experimenting with a lot of drivers for this new flagship design and thought it would be a good idea to throw RAAL into the mix as well.

At first, I was not all that impressed with the RAALs.  It just seemed like something was missing.  But the RAALs stayed in the cabinet as we evaluated quite a few midrange drivers.  The more I listened, the more I realized that everything in the music was there, just exactly as it should be.  But, more importantly, there was nothing there that shouldn't be.  These tweeters did not call attention to themselves at all, but they allowed all the music to come through.  This is the mark of a truly great driver.  Its as if they aren't even there and all you hear is the music.  They are totally smooth, detailed and accurate with no hint of a sonic signature of their own.

I often wonder what I would have thought had the first pair of ribbon tweeters I heard were the RAALs.  I would not have heard the "air" that initially attracted me the G2 (and later the LCY).  So perhaps I would have passed on the use of ribbons.  Fortunately that did not happen.  And fortunately, I listened to the RAALs long enough to realize how incredibly good they are.

We were so impressed with the custom RAAL tweeter we use, in fact, we modified all of our ribbon-based designs to use RAAL tweeters, making us one of the largest users of RAAL ribbons world-wide.  (I was recently told that we now purchase more RAAL ribbons than RAAL's US and Canadian distributors combined.)

As for retro-fitting older speakers with the RAAL ribbons, that is really not a workable option for the G2 and I don't know if it makes much sense for the LCY either.  The G2 is taller than the RAAL.  So not only would the cabinets need to be re-routed, but we would have to figure out how to fill the extra area once required by the G2.  For the LCY, the cabinets could be re-routed since the LCY has a 110mm diameter and that is the exact width and height of the RAAL we use.  But in both cases, new crossovers would be required as well.  So it makes more sense to simply build new speakers.

Should owners of speakers with G2 or LCY tweeters lust after the RAAL tweeter?  I don't think so.  My personal pair of SongTowers have the LCY tweeters installed and even though I could certainly make the swap, I have never been motivated to do so.  The G2 and the LCY are both great tweeters in their own right or we would never have used them in the first place.  So I wouldn't give it a second thought.  Of course, if you are considering upgrading speakers, I would highly recommend the RAAL in any new speaker you might consider.

- Jim

[TJHUB]

Jim,

Interesting response Jim.  I feel very lonely in the camp of not liking something about RAAL vs. the LCY tweeter.  VERY lonely.  I can't help but feel I'm missing something.  I wish I could have spent some quality time with the SS10's when you brought them to my home for the GTG. 

As I stated above, I figured you'd say as much about upgrading the LCY's to the RAAL.  However, there is another speaker manufacturer that uses the same/very similar RAAL tweeter with a custom round baffle.  It measures 102mm in diameter, but I was wondering if you could get a custom round version at 110mm making the swap with the LCY a possibility?  The baffle material looked beyond simple and inexpensive which makes me think a custom round version wouldn't be all that expensive.  Especially for such a large customer as yourself. 

 

[jsalk]

Jim,

Interesting response Jim.  I feel very lonely in the camp of not liking something about RAAL vs. the LCY tweeter.  VERY lonely.  I can't help but feel I'm missing something.  I wish I could have spent some quality time with the SS10's when you brought them to my home for the GTG. 

As I stated above, I figured you'd say as much about upgrading the LCY's to the RAAL.  However, there is another speaker manufacturer that uses the same/very similar RAAL tweeter with a custom round baffle.  It measures 102mm in diameter, but I was wondering if you could get a custom round version at 110mm making the swap with the LCY a possibility?  The baffle material looked beyond simple and inexpensive which makes me think a custom round version wouldn't be all that expensive.  Especially for such a large customer as yourself. 

I have discussed this with RAAL and it is possible.  But re-routing of the cabinets would still be required as the orientation of the tweeter body is horizontal with the LCY and vertical with the RAAL.  Next time I speak with RAAL, I'll bring up the topic again.

As for liking or not liking the RAAL, I would bet a good deal of money that if you spent a week with them, you would want to keep them. It took me a few days to realize how good they really are. We'll just have to make sure you have that opportunity somewhere down the line.

- Jim

[TJHUB]

I have discussed this with RAAL and it is possible.  But re-routing of the cabinets would still be required as the orientation of the tweeter body is horizontal with the LCY and vertical with the RAAL.  Next time I speak with RAAL, I'll bring up the topic again.

As for liking or not liking the RAAL, I would bet a good deal of money that if you spent a week with them, you would want to keep them. It took me a few days to realize how good they really are. We'll just have to make sure you have that opportunity somewhere down the line.

- Jim

I hope you know I trust your opinion very much.  If you can call the RAAL "better" than I would imagine it is.  I know of at least 2 other guys that would buy a retrofit package for the LCY's to the RAAL's.  If you could come up with one, that's likely 3 sales right there just to start. 

Do you think the required routing needed could be done with a Dremel tool?  I'm assuming it wouldn't have to be exact, and all of the routing would be internal.  I know I could easily handle the task.  I'd even like to be the guinea pig for the idea.

[jsalk]

Do you think the required routing needed could be done with a Dremel tool?  I'm assuming it wouldn't have to be exact, and all of the routing would be internal.  I know I could easily handle the task.  I'd even like to be the guinea pig for the idea.

It might be kind of tough with a Dremel tool since the baffles are 1 1/2" thick.  That is quite a bit of material to remove with a Dremmel.  Careful work with a jig saw would be more like it.

- Jim

[ricardojoa]

Sounds interresting. Is this something that standard ST owners could benefit as well?

[Nuance]

I hope you know I trust your opinion very much.  If you can call the RAAL "better" than I would imagine it is.  I know of at least 2 other guys that would buy a retrofit package for the LCY's to the RAAL's.  If you could come up with one, that's likely 3 sales right there just to start. 

Do you think the required routing needed could be done with a Dremel tool?  I'm assuming it wouldn't have to be exact, and all of the routing would be internal.  I know I could easily handle the task.  I'd even like to be the guinea pig for the idea.

I'd love to see the rounded baffle'd RAAL on future Salk speakers.  It's just sexier looking me thinks.

[TJHUB]

I'd love to see the rounded baffle'd RAAL on future Salk speakers.  It's just sexier looking me thinks.

HUGE +1!  Keep them square on the SoundScapes and HT3's, and go round with the SongTowers and HT2-TL's.