[SteveFord]

Josh,
Have you set up a post coital scone concession stand?
Mine is surprisingly lucrative.

[Emsquare]

I've found the red #2 pencil leads to be a bit more forward sounding.

Yes but notice the difference in soundstage. I could detect an increase of nearly 2" gain in image width. Check the following scale...



This might suggest that there is a eutectic ratio that is most effective for the molecular structure to recrystalize. I'm guessing that somewhere between H and B is the eutectic point. A cold graphite structure makes me shudder just thinking about it. It might be OK for DC circuits though.

Josh, Sorry to read of your business difficulties. Perhaps we could retask the ladies for the purpose of audio accessory manufacture. Think of the marketing possibilities...

"Lovingly assembled by hot, sweaty Phillipino teens. Factory tours upon request."

It could work! Think of the health benefit savings just for starters.

[rollo]

  Guys you can try making whatever you want. The Deulands are by far the best sounding resistor we have tried. We tried Dales, and a host of others developing the outboard crossovers for the Analysis Speaker and Lenehan Ref. lines. Expensive they are however the sonic result was actually better than we ever anticipated.
    We do not sell Dueland products. The Manf. will use nothing else now but Duelands for those product lines. So I  tried them on a pair of Maggie 3As with 3.6 tweeters. To our ears there was no going back. If you are willing to spend for the "Cast" version, by all means do so. Do not put it down because of price.
     If you are the frugal type there is no way I can convince you. $75 oh my !!


charles

[Emsquare]

I hope you don't feel slighted by the attempt at humor. Just guys trying to be funny between each other. I have no reason to believe your observation isn't valid. But you have to admit that it is a dirt cheap way of putting the material to the test in your own system before committing hard earned money to it. I have to think that those of us who have tried some of the boutique components have been disappointed by the return on investment. $75 is more trivial to some people than others.

[kevin360]

By all means, carry on with the humor – it's been rather entertaining so far. FWIW, the best crossover I've played with yet was comprised of, by far, the cheapest components – a PLLXO that I fiddled with for a while (thank you, Davey ). It doesn't fit with the current configuration of my MMG-based system, but it is a fantastic approach. It also costs next to nothing to experiment with different values in the small signal realm.

My 3.7s have no resistors, nor do I feel that they need them. They also have no fuses, nor chokes (which I did try briefly – made no discernible difference). I'm not thrilled with the fact that I prefer the sound without the fuses, but I do. If I lose a ribbon, I may have to rethink this.

[Davey]

Charles,

I hope you're not suggesting that Dueland resistors are better sounding than an equivalent DIY approach.  This industry/hobby is full of all kinds of overpriced componentry/parts, so the DIY approach needs to be advocated whenever possible.

These are just resistors we're talking about.....one of the least impactful sounding components in your entire audio system.  If you noted "staggering results" when substituting Dueland resistors in place of other high quality resistors, then most likely you substituted a wrong value or there was some other variable not accounted for.

Cheers,

Dave.

[josh358]

Josh,
Have you set up a post coital scone concession stand?
Mine is surprisingly lucrative.

Great idea! Plus you could add morning after pills, crab cream, baby rattles, divorce papers, and papal indulgences.

[josh358]

By all means, carry on with the humor – it's been rather entertaining so far. FWIW, the best crossover I've played with yet was comprised of, by far, the cheapest components – a PLLXO that I fiddled with for a while (thank you, Davey ). It doesn't fit with the current configuration of my MMG-based system, but it is a fantastic approach. It also costs next to nothing to experiment with different values in the small signal realm.

My 3.7s have no resistors, nor do I feel that they need them. They also have no fuses, nor chokes (which I did try briefly – made no discernible difference). I'm not thrilled with the fact that I prefer the sound without the fuses, but I do. If I lose a ribbon, I may have to rethink this.

You could try a circuit breaker approach. There's a project somewhere on the web. I'm surprised no one has tried this, it's cheaper than those Hi Fi Tuning fuses that apparently don't act like fuses. Of course, with the price of those hi fi tuning fuses, you're probably best off letting the ribbons protect the fuse.

[josh358]

  Guys you can try making whatever you want. The Deulands are by far the best sounding resistor we have tried. We tried Dales, and a host of others developing the outboard crossovers for the Analysis Speaker and Lenehan Ref. lines. Expensive they are however the sonic result was actually better than we ever anticipated.
    We do not sell Dueland products. The Manf. will use nothing else now but Duelands for those product lines. So I  tried them on a pair of Maggie 3As with 3.6 tweeters. To our ears there was no going back. If you are willing to spend for the "Cast" version, by all means do so. Do not put it down because of price.
     If you are the frugal type there is no way I can convince you. $75 oh my !!


charles

Just having fun, not making any comment on the sound (or lack thereof) of various resistors.

[josh358]

Yes but notice the difference in soundstage. I could detect an increase of nearly 2" gain in image width. Check the following scale...



This might suggest that there is a eutectic ratio that is most effective for the molecular structure to recrystalize. I'm guessing that somewhere between H and B is the eutectic point. A cold graphite structure makes me shudder just thinking about it. It might be OK for DC circuits though.

Josh, Sorry to read of your business difficulties. Perhaps we could retask the ladies for the purpose of audio accessory manufacture. Think of the marketing possibilities...

"Lovingly assembled by hot, sweaty Phillipino teens. Factory tours upon request."

It could work! Think of the health benefit savings just for starters.

Yes, but where's the chart for colored leads? I find that the reds warm up the sound nicely, while the blues have a cold, analytical sound.

[kevin360]

You could try a circuit breaker approach. There's a project somewhere on the web. I'm surprised no one has tried this, it's cheaper than those Hi Fi Tuning fuses that apparently don't act like fuses. Of course, with the price of those hi fi tuning fuses, you're probably best off letting the ribbons protect the fuse.

I'll look into the circuit breaker approach. I am certainly curious. Nuisance opens in that scenario would be less of a nuisance. I discovered the nuisance of too much reaction speed in my pico fuse experiment. I suppose a value adjustment is in order, but I've been too lazy (actually, I've been quite busy with other things) to investigate the issue. Anyway, using a circuit breaker sounds like a great idea, but one that had to occur to the manufacturer (they are 'try and see' kind of guys) – who isn't using them for one reason or another.

---

Try the color of Goldilocks' hair - just right.

[Davey]

Fellas,

You might consider a polyswitch for a fuse replacement.  Yet another non-linear solution, but has some advantages over both fuses and typical circuit-breakers.  You used to see these quite a bit (used in conjunction with a light bulb) in passive speaker crossover networks.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=Mfg&srchMfg=163&Manufacturer=Raychem

http://www.te.com/en/products/circuit-protection/browse-products/overcurrent-devices/polyswitch-resettable-devices.html

Cheers,

Dave.

[rollo]

Charles,

I hope you're not suggesting that Dueland resistors are better sounding than an equivalent DIY approach.  This industry/hobby is full of all kinds of overpriced componentry/parts, so the DIY approach needs to be advocated whenever possible.

These are just resistors we're talking about.....one of the least impactful sounding components in your entire audio system.  If you noted "staggering results" when substituting Dueland resistors in place of other high quality resistors, then most likely you substituted a wrong value or there was some other variable not accounted for.

Cheers,

Dave.

  Dave , no that I have not compared one to another. DIY that is. Others ye resistors for the tweeter section of the crossover, yes. Duelands just sound better to our ears. The designer of the speakers made the choice after critical listening tests.
 They could have used a different less expensive brand however they choose Dueland. Why ? It represented the sound they were after.
    Hey I'm no speaker designer or Manf. Actualy Analysis Audio performed a demo of two crossovers one with Dueland one with Dale. Overwhelmingly the Dueland crossover was clearly the better choice.
    Until you try one I cannot listen to opinions. Not an insult hands on experience is what I will listen to
    All parts have an influence on the sound as well as the circuit design. They work hand in hand. Some Manf;s a la Nelson Pass and CJ excell at choosing the right sounding parts for thier gear. So far I think they have great products.

[Davey]

      Until you try one I cannot listen to opinions. Not an insult hands on experience is what I will listen to
   

I have tried Dueland resistors.....I wouldn't have commented if I hadn't.  (Actually, the resistors I haven't tried are the DIY version.) 

I was challenged awhile back regarding the series crossover that was so enthusiastically advocated for MMG speakers on the other forum, so I assembled a set of crossovers exactly per that recommendation to audition.  One of the components specified is a Dueland resistor in series with the tweeter.

Cheers,

Dave.

[Emsquare]

By all means, carry on with the humor – it's been rather entertaining so far.

Thanks. That's all the encouragement I needed.

Wait a minute... I've been here for 15 posts and have already been involved in a conflict. I guess I'm just not cut out for this. (sniff)

Goodbye cruel bulletin board
.
.
.
BAM
.
.
.
Crud ... That's going to leave a mark

[Emsquare]

I'll look into the circuit breaker approach. I am certainly curious. Nuisance opens in that scenario would be less of a nuisance. I discovered the nuisance of too much reaction speed in my pico fuse experiment. I suppose a value adjustment is in order, but I've been too lazy (actually, I've been quite busy with other things) to investigate the issue. Anyway, using a circuit breaker sounds like a great idea, but one that had to occur to the manufacturer (they are 'try and see' kind of guys) – who isn't using them for one reason or another.

I noted your pico fuse suggestion from a previous thread and saved it to my parts list at Parts Express. Until you noted the nuisance failures. Not sure why that would happen. Mislabeled ratings?

I'm not sure if a circuit breaker would be much better than a fuse. I think part of the theory is that there is a non-linear range as the fuse approaches it's melting point. Since a CB is a bimetal thermocouple, wouldn't that suggest a non-linear range as well? I read that someone wrote that they used bypass caps on their fuses to decouple them. I find that to be an interesting idea. Although I'm not sure how you would select the correct values to preserve the function of the fuse. A speaker fuse is one thing and you could just throw a 1uF in there and see what you think. If you are interested in power supply fuse bypass I'm sure you would have to use something rated for that application. Type X2's I think are built as flame retardant. And then there is the concern that if the fuse does go then an excessively large cap might actually explode.

Any ideas as to cap value selection? Perhaps based off of an RC constant? I'm open to suggestions here.

[josh358]

The safest way to do it I think would be to use an active circuit and a relay.

[kevin360]

The nuisance failure of the pico fuses is pretty simple – the melting time of the fuse element is far less than that of the standard fuse. Instead of getting 'wobbly', it just opens. It's not a current rating issue; it's a time before failure at full rating (and beyond) issue. I figured I'd be increasing the protection of the tweeters, and that was probably true, but it was at the expense of the reliability of the fusing hardware. Ah well, live and learn. Increasing the current rating of the pico fuse may solve the nuisance issue while still affording better protection by virtue of the reduced reaction time. It would be interesting to hear whether or not it has an impact on the linearity of the fuse (since things would stay further below its melting point). If I could buy a pair of ribbons so I'd have a pair of replacements on hand and ready to install in case of a mishap, I'd have absolutely no compunction against staying fuseless. Going with the bare essentials is pretty darn pleasing to my ears.

I've just been too damn busy with my homework - just finished installing new flooring in half the house. Today's fun has been hauling stuff back into the house from the garage. We were getting a bit tired of the 'vacation home sound' of the house (without all of the furnishings).

I recently changed one thing that's absolutely blowing me away – I dropped the transition frequency between my 3.7s and subs to 40Hz. My, oh my, can I dial in a serious foundation now! The valves haven't registered any complaints about the extra work and neither have the Maggies. The only frustrating thing is the inconsistency from album to album. I have yet to incorporate a solution which affords level adjustment from my listening chair – a situation in need of redress. I'd really like to build a more specific crossover now, but I also decided to take on a couple new woodworking projects. I'm not the fastest gun in the west, but I enjoy fiddling around with this stuff.

---

Thank you, Dave, for giving me another idea to mull over.

[medium jim]

Kevin:

Funny, that was my complaint when I had my subs at 50hz...even at 80hz there is a wide swing of the low end.   Much is between the CD's that I have that are from the early days and they still hadn't figured out that they needed to remaster them to get rid of the huge midrange bump that was engineered in the original tape for vinyl. 

A good test of the foundation/bass is Morph the Cat by Donald Fagen, which is pushed about 10db, then go to Katy Lied by Steely Dan which is about as perfectly mastered as you can get...the happiness is found somewhere in the middle of the two for setting your bass eq/gain.

Jim

[Emsquare]

The safest way to do it I think would be to use an active circuit and a relay.

Safest maybe but easiest? IMHO we might be talking about snipe hunting with this endeavor. I don't even know that it there is any substance to it. And I only recently learned that there actually is something called a snipe...




The Snipe --- The Snipe --- Not a Larch

Cute, yes?

It never ocurred to me to use a relay that way but it would be a way of doing it. I might even be able to do a DIY one. The only reason I have any interest in it is that it is somewhat controversial and it seems like it would be pretty easy to take it off of the table as a factor. But how to do it without making it an enormous waste of time? I'll look around on Wima's literature for their X2 caps or find a predesigend filter that uses them this way I suppose. As for the speaker fuses... Perhaps a .1 to a .47 uF would be sufficient for the purpose? Or I could just replace everything with a handful of 15A fuses for an evening and assume there will not be an event for the test period.

I so look forward to the days when I have the time and enrgy to teach myself to be a DIYer. (is that a word?) I can play part time hack for now and I have no idea why I find it so entertaining.