[mgsboedmisodpc2]

Recently I have concluded that a 375g record weight is not as effective as my well tempered screw on record clamp because  the clamp is more effective at preventing the record from sliding on the platter when properly tightened.  Or is there a heaver record weight which can be as effected as a well tightened screw on clamp? 

The WTC uses a clamp the WTA does not and so on the WTA what record mat material is being used to prevent the record from sliding as the needle tracks or attempts to grind the platter to a halt with its tracking force?

[mick wolfe]

Recently I have concluded that a 375g record weight is not as effective as my well tempered screw on record clamp because  the clamp is more effective at preventing the record from sliding on the platter when properly tightened.  Or is there a heaver record weight which can be as effected as a well tightened screw on clamp? 

The WTC uses a clamp the WTA does not and so on the WTA what record mat material is being used to prevent the record from sliding as the needle tracks or attempts to grind the platter to a halt with its tracking force?

Believe me, nothing slips or slides on the Amadeus platter. The stock mat is simply a foam type mat. Others have had success changing from the stock mat to the Auditorium Mat. The "floating" platter design employed on the Amadeus does not want to see a record clamp of any sort. It's not designed for the weight or the downward force needed to apply a clamp. Nor does it need one to achieve excellent sonic results.
I don't know what tracking forces you have in mind, but if they're capable of "grinding" the platter to a halt, best find a more accurate tracking force gauge. You must be setting your tracking force in pounds instead of grams.

[BobRex]

I'm not sure I understand how a screw on clamp's pressure negatively affects the platter.  A record weight has the potential to add pressure to the bearing, but a clamp's pressure is purely against the platter, and unless the clamp is screwed too tightly, or the platter is too flimsy, I would think its impact would be benign.

[toocool4]

If you are using a suspended table then the weight maybe a problem, but if you are using a solid table like my Acoustic Solid One to One seen in my avatar then you don’t get these problems.

I don’t have problems with record movement on the turntable, the mat is leather and the weight is 600g. I would not put such a weight on a suspended table anyway.

[Elizabeth]

I only use  a record wieght on Lp sides which are dished. (and thus would easily slip on the glass/felt/ platter interface of my Rega.
Lucky the heavy record weight on my Kuzma is right at hand if i need it.
I have a screw on clamp on a Dula Golden one, and it is too much of a bother to use. Nor do i find it helped much. so i just say no to screw down clamps. Plus it is hard to screw down a clamp onto a moving platter!!. I always just let my TT motor run the whole session.

[mick wolfe]

I'm not sure I understand how a screw on clamp's pressure negatively affects the platter.  A record weight has the potential to add pressure to the bearing, but a clamp's pressure is purely against the platter, and unless the clamp is screwed too tightly, or the platter is too flimsy, I would think its impact would be benign.

The floating platter dynamic of the Amadeus is fairly touchy. You'd spend half your listening session rebalancing the platter if you insisted on using a clamp.....which is not necessary with this table. Wasn't designed for one and doesn't need one.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

tracking force used is  0.00595248108 pounds or 2.7grams.
If I would imagine if one were to place an LP on a platter mark the platter and edge of the LP in theory I would suspect that friction would cause the two marks to separate defining a need for a clamp to prevent this movement.

So then why were clamps weighted or screw on or clamp on created?

[mick wolfe]

tracking force used is  0.00595248108 pounds or 2.7grams.
If I would imagine if one were to place an LP on a platter mark the platter and edge of the LP in theory I would suspect that friction would cause the two marks to separate defining a need for a clamp to prevent this movement.

So then why were clamps weighted or screw on or clamp on created?

My VPI HW 19 Mk. II had an well thought out clamping system.....a threaded spindle, spacer, plexiglass disk that fit over the record label and a tightening nut. Straight forward and easy to use. Next up was a Nottingham Interspace/Spacearm. Never used a clamp on this table in eight years and didn't miss it in the least. Next up is now the Amadeus. A clamp is not an option with this table and once again, that's fine with me. Some tables are designed with a clamp of some sort as part of a integrated system and some are not. Aftermarket clamps may have positive effect for some tables, but a clamp doesn't guarantee a positive effect with every table. Like with any audio accessory, let your ears be the judge.

[BobRex]

The floating platter dynamic of the Amadeus is fairly touchy. You'd spend half your listening session rebalancing the platter if you insisted on using a clamp.....which is not necessary with this table. Wasn't designed for one and doesn't need one.

Nonsense, I'm fully familiar with the bearing design and there is nothing that makes this touchy or requires "balancing" once the platter is spinning.  Clamps can be very light weight (think of the VPI or even the early Radio Shack) and placng that weight centrally over the spindle will not throw anything "off".  Hell, a slightly tight belt has a better chance of thowing the platter out of balance than a clamp does.

[mick wolfe]

Nonsense, I'm fully familiar with the bearing design and there is nothing that makes this touchy or requires "balancing" once the platter is spinning.  Clamps can be very light weight (think of the VPI or even the early Radio Shack) and placng that weight centrally over the spindle will not throw anything "off".  Hell, a slightly tight belt has a better chance of thowing the platter out of balance than a clamp does.

Whatever.....go for it.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

BobRex can you remember what mat if any you were using with the VPI, Nottingham, and AmaDeus?

[BobRex]

With the VPI - no mat, the Nottingham (which belonged to a friend) - I believe was using the stock mat (it's been a while).  I've not played with a WTA, but on the older Ref (again, belonged to a friend) - no mat.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

I have decided to present this post with some statements I found over the web regarding the possible benefits of using clamps, weights and rings (outer).
Please comments if you please


"...eliminate all record surface vibration"

"..reduces vinyl/stylus feedback and eliminates lateral slippage"

"...give a significant improvement of definition, tangebility of sound and transient response. Furthermore it will deminish distortion."

"...to obtain the maximum 'bonding' of record and turntable mat"

"..more precision, better transient response and less distortion. There is the improved reproduction of all frequencies without emphesizing one section of the response curve. And there is always the improved rendition of the mid band"

"...reduce the proliferation of the resonances stemming from the groove"

"Because of the improved contact between record and mat, there is mass added to the record."

"...In all events the resonance frequency of the record itself is lowered (Fs). But it will also be decreased in level (dB)."
 
"By using a ring and center weight, the generation of vibrations by the cartridge riding in the groove is decreased as well."

"... will not only alter the fundamental frequency of the record, but will also have an effect on the audio band itself, its level and the frequency characteristic."

[threadkiller]

Hey MG,
Perhaps for other tables all that you mention above is needed, but not for the new tables from WTL.  As the old retailer Gene Rubin used to say, anything that gets in the way of you spinning a record will eventually keep you from doing just that.  So bless be most of us on here don't have to mess with that ever again.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

possibly the WTA because of its cork LP interface does not need a clamp but has any WTA owner as a tweek ever tried a clamp and if so please mention any noticed benefit

[threadkiller]

First, you are putting false statements on here.
There is no cork interface with any WTL table period.

Secondly, if someone would erroneously try a clamp on an Amadeus, I'm assuming that's what you mean by WTA, I don't want to hear about it.
Firebaugh would disprove vehemently.

My question to you is, why muck up a great product?

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

yes I must first find out the platter surface of the WTA.

MUCK up 

TWEAK up 

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

here we go

"Acrylic Platter And Vinyl Mat"

is what the WTA uses

[threadkiller]

Where are you finding your info?? 

The stock mat for the Amadeus is foam.
And the Auditorium mat some of us use is cloth.

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

BTW this post is about the WTC
So with that said those owning the WTC do you use a weighted or clamping puck

Guess it would be interesting to figure out why a common turntable accessary is not needed with the WTA other than acceptinbg it as fact as mentioned here and else where

"The Amadeus eschews the clamp system used in earlier Well Tempered ’tables, but the innocuous-looking mat will clearly do its desired job of soaking up the energy, especially the higher frequency energy, that the stylus puts into the vinyl as it plays the record.
 "