[jtwrace]

Since there is talk in the other thread about the NC1200 modules I thought I'd start a thread about them.

These are the manufacturers that are using the NC1200 modules that I know of.  Feel free to add to it.

http://mola-mola.nl/
rumored to be $11,500

http://www.acousticimagery.com/
http://www.acousticimagery.com/page2.htm
http://www.tweekgeek.com/acoustic-imagery/
$9,000

http://www.thetadigital.com/index.shtml
rumored to be $12,000

http://merrillaudio.net/veritas.html
$9k

[OzarkTom]

Hypex NCore Monoblock Amplifiers – A Mola-Mola Preview Review?

http://www.audiophilejournal.com/hypex-ncore-monoblock-amplifiers-mola-mola/

[kevinh]

Hypex NCore Monoblock Amplifiers – A Mola-Mola Preview Review?

http://www.audiophilejournal.com/hypex-ncore-monoblock-amplifiers-mola-mola/

Interesting stuff, Bruno has alluded to the UcD modules being upgraded with NCore tech, this give a nice explaination of how they will be changed.

[kevinh]

Since there is talk in the other thread about the NC1200 modules I thought I'd start a thread about them.

These are the manufacturers that are using the NC1200 modules that I know of.  Feel free to add to it.

http://mola-mola.nl/
rumored to be $11,500

http://www.acousticimagery.com/
rumored sub $10,000

http://www.thetadigital.com/index.shtml
rumored to be $12,000

The pre amp with the built in DAC is interesting looking.

Bruno has alluded to DIT modules for DIY D/A converters and DSP modules one wonders if they will be derived form the Pre Amp Mola Mola is bringing to market.

Combined with the NCore and up graded UcD Modules could be one stop shopping for Diy'ers looking for an end to end solution.

[Funtez]

Perhaps one of the lucky High End Show attendees can tell me if there was any indication as to the release date for the Mola Mola??, and did the preamp/dac have a remote?

Thanks a lot- looking forward to seeing the other OEM versions materialize although the Mola Mola definately has my attention pending more info..

[mhconley]

Nice mention for Bruno and Mola-Mola on this page of 6 Moons' industry feature on the High End Society Munich 2012 show.

Martin

[OzarkTom]

Nice mention for Bruno and Mola-Mola on this page of 6 Moons' industry feature on the High End Society Munich 2012 show.

Martin

This was worth reading in that article. The Mola Mola's are going to be improved.

"Under the hood of the curved mono amps sits the already renowned Ncore module but contrary to the evaluation models we reviewed recently, the Mola Mola version gets an enhanced discrete input stage to further improve the circuitry."

[kevinh]

This was worth reading in that article. The Mola Mola's are going to be improved.

"Under the hood of the curved mono amps sits the already renowned Ncore module but contrary to the evaluation models we reviewed recently, the Mola Mola version gets an enhanced discrete input stage to further improve the circuitry."

Just to  dispell confusion the NC 400 has had a discrete input stage, this was something requested by the DIY community in leiu of the op amp inputs used with the UcD modules.

As I understood it the NC1200 for OEM's was not foing to have an input stage so the OEM could provide their own.

If I were to guess the Mola's are going to use the Discrete Op Amp stage Bruno made for the NC400.

[wilsynet]

The Hypex NC400 can be assembled for under $2000. Lets more than double that price for manufacturing and all that goes with it to say, $4500. I'd like to know what is in the NC1200 modules and power supplies that takes the price up to $9000 and beyond?

I don't know what the OEM price of the NC1200 modules are, but let's say they're 2-3 times the NC400.  Also, assume the chassis is 2-3x as expensive as the cheap, low rent, high volume stuff you can get in abundance.  Add labor, higher end parts, and I think you're at least at $4500, could be more.

Now you need to make enough margin to pay the bills, pay down the equipment and facilities investment, factor in future warranty obligations, and maybe make a profit too.

$9000 doesn't seem so extreme.  Anyway, there's nothing wrong with charging what the market might be able to bear, or using value based rather than cost based pricing.

[jtwrace]

I'd like to know what is in the NC1200 modules and power supplies that takes the price up to $9000 and beyond?

High Power Exclusivity with this.   






The above data from http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC1200_datasheet.pdf

[Vic]

I don't mean to say this is an unworthy or completely run of the mill switching amplifier design and technology. I want them myself. On the other hand there doesn't appear to be any extremely costly components on the slightly larger 1200 modules compared to the 400's. If there are then that is my question. If the reason is casework, I feel the manufacture may benefit from a discussion.

Granted, the Mola casework may be attractive but at what cost? I'm positive the simple and sensibly priced extrusion casework of the initial nCore review sample would stunningly outsell the Mola. Or am I alone here?

The history of the overall success of a unique class D design remains to be economy. That an inexpensive design can, in my opinion, out perform the ridiculously exotic 1%'r audio products and do it in a more green fashion is the big deal. The whole idea of giant killing in this goofy hobby is the wholly grail of a designers success.

The Devialet, for all it's unique casework features and its sonic advancements, may remain suspect to most of us who may never be able to do an in home audition because of its high retail cost. Buy the time used units hit the market this class of amplifier is on a completely higher level of performance. Just check the price of a, not that old, dCS stack of digital conversion.

The reviews that seem to count are from the number of satisfied customers in places like this. Customers who, collectively, have done far more in home comparisons than the remarks of the slightly questionable industry periodicals.

The best way to steal money in this market is by a popular solid design that goes into SE or Signature status. Steve Nugent is very open about a segment of his market that wants unique and stylish casework. He is doing it and he's open about the ridiculously high cost of the project. His DAC is race proven, the nCore hasn't even hit the ground.

[randytsuch]

My 2 cents.

I think it's pretty easy to look at the costs of the parts for audio equipment, and complain about the markup.

So, if you can build it DIY for much cheaper, go ahead and build yourself one, or if you can get someone to build one for you, then go for it.

To build one to produce, then you have engineering and development costs, overhead, etc to cover.  At 10K each, you're not selling a ton of these, so you have to amortize your engineering costs over fewer units.

I would hazard to guess if you look at other high end audio products, you'll find a larger ratio of material cost to product cost.  In a digital amp like this, there is probably less engineering cost for the amp manufacturer since a lot of the engineering went into the NC1200 modules, which are embedded in the module cost.

Randy

[James Romeyn]

Lots of useful comments above...

There are two amps I know of with tube input stage for voltage multiplication.  One, powering fantastic sounding Vandy 5A Carbon, may be the best I've heard: Aesthetix, with SS output stage.  The other is made in The Netherlands and sold in Europe, Guido (OOW-doh) Tent's Tent Labs hybrid, with a sweet transformer coupling the tube to Bruno's Hypex UcD output stage.  Guido and Bruno are close to each other geographically and professionally.  A friend whose taste I know and admire bought the Tent Labs hybrid and loves it.

So apparently NC1200 already comes with discreet input.  I wonder if Guido and/or anyone else work on a tube input stage for the NC1200?  Guido already has a costly Ncore-self-powered speaker that my friend said sounded great.     

[wilsynet]

I don't mean to say this is an unworthy or completely run of the mill switching amplifier design and technology. I want them myself. On the other hand there doesn't appear to be any extremely costly components on the slightly larger 1200 modules compared to the 400's. If there are then that is my question. If the reason is casework, I feel the manufacture may benefit from a discussion.

The NC1200 does have more power.  If you need the power, then there is no DIY option.

[jtwrace]

It's already been posted in it's own thread. 

[acousticimagery]

"  To both Jeff and I this new amplifier technology represents a stunning achievement – one that is immediately obvious in its benefits to the listener – one that single handedly blows away all the years of work we’ve lavished on polishing our analog amp designs. "..........

WOW!!!!.....  Respect to Paul and Jeff for having the **lls to put that in print.

We are 

[*Scotty*]

The input circuitry of most amplifiers is a Class A circuit, this small signal circuitry burns very little current in Class A and has no big power bill or demand on the power supply compared to a Class A output stage.
 It would be nice if PS Audio didn't "pot" this new circuit as they have with past GAIN CELL circuits. Epoxy is not not your friend sonically speaking.
Scotty

[Barry_NJ]

I'm pretty sure all the 1200 modules will be getting some type of custom input circuit, as Bruno designed them for this purpose so the different mfrs. could make them their own...

[rascal]

I'm pretty sure all the 1200 modules will be getting some type of custom input circuit, as Bruno designed them for this purpose so the different mfrs. could make them their own...

You got it- jhm731- you raised a logical question- but unlike NC400+SMPS plug and play you see among DIY community , with NC1200 Hypex has given flexibility to the OEM and they are free to add relevant input stages and price accordingly.

I am impressed with Hypex for clearly providing value to DIY community and at same time establishing clear rules and enabling value-add OEMs to offer a better product and differentiate themselves. 

Of course my secret hope is NC400 is 99% of NC1200 implementation  but until we hear them it will be just conjecture.

The blue glow underneath the case is pretty cool-acoustic imagery!

[mjosef]

No more

just conjecture

Yesterday (Saturday) I heard the Veritas Mono Blocks by Merrill Audio at Occam's vs his custom NC400.
Wow! 
Methinks its the best amp I ever heard in Paul/Occam's system. Smooth like butta on the top with resolution to boot, and a solid bass with seemingly unlimited power. Certainly was superior to Paul's enhanced NC400.
May the money Gods rain money down near me so I can afford it/them. $9k+