[Ericus Rex]

i think what is needed is to lower the pitch w/o changing the speed/tempo...

If speed is changed (i.e. the track is slowed down to drop the pitch) then that's the main difference you're hearing.  I took the 'digital conversion' part to mean that the speed was kept the same.

As for the cellist, there is a physical change occuring with the cello when it is retuned to 432; there is less tension on the plates of the instrument and it will respond differently.  Not all cellos will sound better with lower tension either.

If you get used to your music at 432 and then drop it down to say, 425 you'll once again notice the changes you heard the first time (more 'relaxed and natural' sounding, etc).  Where do you stop?

Period orchestral groups usually tune to a lower A but this is mostly b/c they use gut strings which cannot handle the higher tension required at 440; the strings are more resistant to the attack of the bow and tend to 'whistle' more.  Not to mention break more easily!

[RCduck7]

Period orchestral groups usually tune to a lower A but this is mostly b/c they use gut strings which cannot handle the higher tension required at 440; the strings are more resistant to the attack of the bow and tend to 'whistle' more.  Not to mention break more easily!

Yes, some string instruments break easely at 440hz and not al insruments can be tuned for 432hz off coursse. Few producers do tune their recordings for 432hz but not many.

[RCduck7]

On te audition there was also an eastern recording in 432hz featuring cymbals. It was striking that the resonating of the cymbals and reverberation could be heard with ease. Sounds seem to die out a bit longer to. In every genre of music that was played at the audition i heard benefits of 432hz but it had the most impact on acousitic and classical music. The best description i can give when listen to music in 432hz for some time and then change it to 440hz, is that the sound was smaller, les richer, less 3D and less emotional, almost like a different recording.

On the evening there was also the possibility to hear 432hz music combined with a slightly slower pitched recording. Details and nuances could easely be pinpointed bit i'm not sure i'm into the slower pitched thing. When a copy of the recording was made that way (combination of 432hz and the slower pitch) on a CD-R i could hear some strange knocking noises in the lower bass notes. Could be a bad copy but either way, i think the lower pitch thing is not worth looking into.

[doug s.]

i think what is needed is to lower the pitch w/o changing the speed/tempo...

doug s.

If speed is changed (i.e. the track is slowed down to drop the pitch) then that's the main difference you're hearing.  I took the 'digital conversion' part to mean that the speed was kept the same.

you could be right - i hope you are right - but i sure wonder how it could possibly be done.   

doug s.

[Alan]

you could be right - i hope you are right - but i sure wonder how it could possibly be done.   

doug s.

In JR media center there are separate controls for pitch and tempo, so adjusting the pitch doesn't effect the speed. The adjustment isn't fine enough to set it exactly, 431.8 is as close as I can get.

[RCduck7]

you could be right - i hope you are right - but i sure wonder how it could possibly be done.   

doug s.

If the track time is longer... With the one i heard the track was a few seconds longer. Good or not is only a matter of personal taste. I want my music the way it's meant from the artist.

[srb]

If you adjust the pitch without the corresponding natural decrease in tempo then you are introducing additional resampling artifacts via time compression that can only detract from the recording.

I would be inclined to either have recordings that were recorded with a 432Hz instrument tuning, or downwardly adjust the pitch on existing 440Hz recordings without trying to also compress the time to maintain the speed, and just accept the nominally slower playback.

I have used various software to both change tempo without affecting pitch (to make music fit exact time cues in video) and to change pitch without affecting tempo (to transpose music by one or two semitones for practice) and in both cases careful listening reveals unnatural artifacts.

Granted the amount of change is more than we are talking about here.  Also, I'm not sure if I have my mind completely wrapped around the mathematics and how it affects the music, as the difference in Hertz between semitones depends on the octave, which is a doubling of frequency.

A0 to A#0  (27.5000Hz to 29.1352Hz) is a difference of 1.6352Hz
A1 to A#1  (55.0000Hz to 58.2705Hz) is a difference of 3.2705Hz
A2 to A#2  (110.000Hz to 116.541Hz) is a difference of 6.541Hz
A3 to A#3  (220.000Hz to 233.082Hz) is a difference of 13.082Hz
A4 to A#4  (440.000Hz to 466.164 Hz) is a difference of 26.164Hz
A5 to A#5  (880.000Hz to 932.328Hz) is a difference of 52.328Hz
A6 to A#6  (1760.00Hz to 1864.66Hz) is a difference of 104.66Hz
A7 to A#7  (3520.00Hz to 3729.31Hz ) is a difference of 209.31Hz

Steve

[Letitroll98]

I played with this a bit today.  In my version of Audacity I couldn't get to A4 in the adjustment, so just dropped it -.31 semitones which was a 1.776% change.  The online instructions varied a bit from poster to poster, I wonder how many versions of Audacity there are, or if I simply am a moron and don't know how to read instructions, which is quite likely.

I didn't notice a lot other than the pitch was lower, no revelations from on high or anything.  On most selections I did slightly prefer the 432Hz tuning, on a couple I preferred the original.  One caveat, I didn't bother changing the originals to wav and reburning at 440Hz, which invalidates the results, but there are so many other subjective invalidations that I don't really care, it's something fun to play with.  There's enough of a difference that I will continue experimenting.

If anyone knows how to get out of the A0 range and go directly to A4 in Audacity I'd appreciate it.  Or if they know if this makes no difference and a global change of -.31 semitones is suitable, that would work just as well.   

[CYoung234]

Not quite sure where you guys are getting all this from. Actually, most major symphony orchestras in the U.S. tune to about A442 or A443. I had to have one of my instruments sent back to the builder to be modified because I could not tune it to A442 with his custom mouthpieces.

[Letitroll98]

I'm getting it from this thread, and a little bit from Google.  Anyone like yourself with actual experience from either side of the issue is encouraged to respond, so thanks for the info.  Other posters are correct in that there's a lot of New Age stuff associated with this, therefore includes a fair amount of BS.  Don't get me wrong, I'm an old hippie and love New Age stuff, but I recognize the high level of dither included with anything like this.  How would you guess the A440 idea came from and how do the orchestras you're involved with decide on A442 or A443?

[JohnR]

The article linked by wushuliu earlier is helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music

A quote: "For example, an English pitchpipe from 1720[2] plays the A above middle C at 380 Hz, (info) while the organs played by Johann Sebastian Bach in Hamburg, Leipzig and Weimar were pitched at A = 480 Hz,"

[CYoung234]

The article linked by wushuliu earlier is helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music

A quote: "For example, an English pitchpipe from 1720[2] plays the A above middle C at 380 Hz, (info) while the organs played by Johann Sebastian Bach in Hamburg, Leipzig and Weimar were pitched at A = 480 Hz,"

Actually, that seems to be a pretty good article, and notes that cycles per second were not really used until the 20th century. It also confirms the modern trend of many of the large symphony orchestras in the U.S. to use A442. The Chicago Symphony and San Francisco Symphony also both tune to that.

[Ericus Rex]

The higher the pitch the orchestras call their "A" (and subsequently tune to), the more projection they get from their string sections.  I can see how that could be problematic for wind players like yourself, CYoung (clarinet?).

Pretty much nothing, absolutely zilch, was standardized between countries, states and even cities until fairly recently.  That means shoe sizes weren't the same, screw thread pitches weren't the same, cups and liters etc weren't the same, and the oboeist in each orchestra's "A" pitchpipe weren't the same.  No surprises here.

[CYoung234]

The higher the pitch the orchestras call their "A" (and subsequently tune to), the more projection they get from their string sections.  I can see how that could be problematic for wind players like yourself, CYoung (clarinet?).

Actually, I am a trumpet player. Being covered up was never really a problem...