[95Dyna]

Does anyone have experience using a pair of F110's with the 3.7's or 3.6's?

[kevin360]

I have no personal experience with that specific sub, but I am familiar enough with JL Audio. Frankly, I think a pair of the 110s would kick serious butt and would make great companions for a pair of 3.7s (or 3.6s). I love my 3.7s, but I love them more with a little help from their friends. Of course, really good dipole subs are probably even better, but I like my boxy bass (mostly only reproducing some deep fundamentals anyway - and that they do quite well).

[josh358]

If the crossover is low/sharp enough, and your room is big enough, the sub will play below the first non-trivial mode, in which case if you listen at a fixed distance, a boxed sub is probably at least as good as a dipole, maybe better.

[golfugh]

I have dual F110's w/ KEF Reference 205/2's.....great subs

[95Dyna]

I have no personal experience with that specific sub, but I am familiar enough with JL Audio. Frankly, I think a pair of the 110s would kick serious butt and would make great companions for a pair of 3.7s (or 3.6s). I love my 3.7s, but I love them more with a little help from their friends. Of course, really good dipole subs are probably even better, but I like my boxy bass (mostly only reproducing some deep fundamentals anyway - and that they do quite well).

Thanks everyone.  I think I'm where Kevin is thinking the 3.7's need some help on the low end.  I just auditioned them last week and was smitten with all the superlatives that have appeared in the press and these forums so no need to repeat them here.  I guess the bass issue depends on where you're coming from and what you like.  I have been listening to a pair of Infinity 9 Kappas for the last 22 years that incorporate a pair of 12" woofers per side and are down 3 db @ 29 Hz and 6 db @ 25 Hz.  I am also a lover of acoustic bass especcially in a jazz setting.  Although the quality of the bass is there in the Maggies and it is ideally ballanced with the rest of the range, the presense or palpability (to borrow a snob word from the media) is less than I would desire.  Sounds like the F110's are a strong possiility.   A pair of them with the 3.7's and you're still under $10K-an extrordinary value in my book.

[saisunil]

I'd highly recommend you look into GR-Research subs - box/OB/Custom ...

[josh358]

I loved the bass on the 3.7's. But bass levels with any speaker are very position and room dependent, in some rooms you're going to have too much and in some you're going to have too little. My concern if adding a sub to the 3.7's would be to avoid coloring the sound above 40 Hz. I'm wondering if adding DWM's might not be a good approach? I think it depends on what you're trying to do, if you want to extend the bass response from 40 down to 20 Hz subs are the way to go, or if you want them to play louder and can tolerate a higher crossover. Whereas if you want to boost what's there a bit while maintaining the planar clarity, DWM's might be the best option.

[rw@cn]

I loved the bass on the 3.7's. But bass levels with any speaker are very position and room dependent, in some rooms you're going to have too much and in some you're going to have too little. My concern if adding a sub to the 3.7's would be to avoid coloring the sound above 40 Hz. I'm wondering if adding DWM's might not be a good approach? I think it depends on what you're trying to do, if you want to extend the bass response from 40 down to 20 Hz subs are the way to go, or if you want them to play louder and can tolerate a higher crossover. Whereas if you want to boost what's there a bit while maintaining the planar clarity, DWM's might be the best option.

Josh,

I've been thinking about the DWMs and also about the Tri-Center. But we should stick to the DWMs for now. What would be the advantage of having 3.7s and a pair of DWMs and a pair of F110s (or any subwoofer for that matter)?

Seems to me that this is an expensive proposition. Do you think it would be worth it?  I think you would be approaching 20.7 dollars (or would DWMs be helpful with 20.7s?).

[95Dyna]

The website clearly states that the DWM is designed for the smaller Maggies such as the MMC.  Since the 3.7 is certifiably good down to 40 Hz adding a woofer (the website says the DVM is not a sub, it's a woofer) with a range of 40 Hz to 200Hz would probaqbly cause more harm than good.  I think the F110 has a crossover dial on the rear panel which I would think you would set at about 40 Hz give or take.

[TONEPUB]

A perfect match with all of the Magnepans. (and the ML's as well)

Experiment with speaker placement, take full advantage of their DSP to optimize for the room and as mentioned here, set the crossover point as low as possible.  One thing I found helpful is to use a test tone CD (and an SPL meter if you have one) and adjust the sub until the transition is as smooth as possible.

I've used a lot of subs with Magnepans and Logans and the JL's are by far my favorite.

Or you could even consider an in wall Gotham!  Pretty cool, works about the same and takes up no floor space!

[Robin Hood]

The website clearly states that the DWM is designed for the smaller Maggies such as the MMC.  Since the 3.7 is certifiably good down to 40 Hz adding a woofer (the website says the DVM is not a sub, it's a woofer) with a range of 40 Hz to 200Hz would probaqbly cause more harm than good.  I think the F110 has a crossover dial on the rear panel which I would think you would set at about 40 Hz give or take.

The Magnepan website states the DWM woofers can fine-tune the bass and midbass of their floor-standing models. The actual Magnepan statements are provided below:

"Multiple subwoofers are commonly used to smooth room bass response. Although an expensive solution, this technique has been proven to be superior to EQ of a single subwoofer. Using the same fundamentals of acoustics, the DWM can fine-tune the bass and midbass of our floor-standing models.

Positioning and phase-- To start, the DWM should be equi-distance with your left/right Maggies. For additive bass with the 1.7s or 3.7s, move the DWM 10 inches closer from the equi-distance position toward your listening position."

[95Dyna]

The Magnepan website states the DWM woofers can fine-tune the bass and midbass of their floor-standing models. The actual Magnepan statements are provided below:

"Multiple subwoofers are commonly used to smooth room bass response. Although an expensive solution, this technique has been proven to be superior to EQ of a single subwoofer. Using the same fundamentals of acoustics, the DWM can fine-tune the bass and midbass of our floor-standing models.

Positioning and phase-- To start, the DWM should be equi-distance with your left/right Maggies. For additive bass with the 1.7s or 3.7s, move the DWM 10 inches closer from the equi-distance position toward your listening position."

The website is specific about the application when using the DVM with the floor standers:

"The obvious application of Maggie Woofers is for any of the "small" Magneplanar speakers. The not-so-obvious application is for adding bass radiating area to any of the large Maggie models where bass coupling is a problem due to room acoustics.

When a speaker is "voiced", certain assumptions are made about the room in which the speaker is likely to be used. (The 20.7s are not likely to be used in a small apartment.) For optimum bass performance, there is no One-Size-Fits-All. Room acoustics vary and Maggie Woofers are a modular solution to achieving the needed bass radiating area for your particular room. Call Magnepan for technical assistance."

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong but isn't this a solution to adjust the existing bass provided by the floor stander and better match it to room nuances and not a bass enhancer.  Seems to me you get both with a sub like the F110.  Like I said, I could be wrong and I do appreciate you input.

[rw@cn]

The website clearly states that the DWM is designed for the smaller Maggies such as the MMC.  Since the 3.7 is certifiably good down to 40 Hz adding a woofer (the website says the DVM is not a sub, it's a woofer) with a range of 40 Hz to 200Hz would probaqbly cause more harm than good.  I think the F110 has a crossover dial on the rear panel which I would think you would set at about 40 Hz give or take.

I understand what the website states. But there have been a good number of statements (some attributed to Wendell, I think) indicating that the DVM would be a beneficial addition to any of the Maggies. IIRC there was some discussion (on this site) about the benefits accrued when used with MMGs and 1.7s.

[95Dyna]

A perfect match with all of the Magnepans. (and the ML's as well)

Experiment with speaker placement, take full advantage of their DSP to optimize for the room and as mentioned here, set the crossover point as low as possible.  One thing I found helpful is to use a test tone CD (and an SPL meter if you have one) and adjust the sub until the transition is as smooth as possible.

I've used a lot of subs with Magnepans and Logans and the JL's are by far my favorite.

Or you could even consider an in wall Gotham!  Pretty cool, works about the same and takes up no floor space!

Thanks Tonepub.  I have the JL Audio Sound Analyzer Toolkit App on my iPhone.  It has an SPL meter, frequency spectrum analyzer and, get this, an Ohms Law calculator.  Can't understand why I get funny looks when I offer to do a calculation for someone.  Now all I need are the Fathoms and the Maggies but I don't think you can download those from the Apple store .

[josh358]

The website is specific about the application when using the DVM with the floor standers:

"The obvious application of Maggie Woofers is for any of the "small" Magneplanar speakers. The not-so-obvious application is for adding bass radiating area to any of the large Maggie models where bass coupling is a problem due to room acoustics.

When a speaker is "voiced", certain assumptions are made about the room in which the speaker is likely to be used. (The 20.7s are not likely to be used in a small apartment.) For optimum bass performance, there is no One-Size-Fits-All. Room acoustics vary and Maggie Woofers are a modular solution to achieving the needed bass radiating area for your particular room. Call Magnepan for technical assistance."

Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong but isn't this a solution to adjust the existing bass provided by the floor stander and better match it to room nuances and not a bass enhancer.  Seems to me you get both with a sub like the F110.  Like I said, I could be wrong and I do appreciate you input.

This depends on how you use the sub. If you cross it over at the bottom of the Maggie's range, it will extend the bass down to 20 Hz. If you want to enhance the bass higher up in the Maggie's range, and increase the Maggie's maximum output levels, you can cross the sub over higher, but in doing so, you'll lose bass clarity and smoothness. There are people who use both approaches with success. Small Maggies in particular, like the MMG, can benefit from the extra output level afforded by a higher crossover level.

By way of contrast, the DWM is not a subwoofer, but a woofer designed primarily to accommodate the on-wall models and the Mini Maggies. However, when used in conjunction with the larger Maggies, it can enhance the bass in the range above 40 Hz without the degradation of clarity that occurs when you run a sub in that range (and many would say, even when you use it for bottom octave duty). That's why, despite its cost and limitations, it might be worth considering for that application. Having recently heard the purity of the 3.7's bass, I'd be very reluctant to use a conventional sub with it for anything but bottom octave duty.

It's perhaps worth noting that for many or most speakers, including Maggies, the region from 100-250 Hz is more problematic than the bottom octave because it tends to suffer from cancellation effects (floor bounce in dynamics, rear wave cancellation in planars) and it has a larger psychoacoustic role. The DWM's will help here, if that's a problem in the installation -- which you can really only tell by measuring and listening.

Finally, the last word in Maggie bass, for those who have the room, are the Tympani woofer panels. As Tonepub said, most Maggies aren't for rocking out. But Tympanis combine near-dynamic bass slam with the naturalism of planar bass. I'm not alone in thinking that they have the best midbass of any speaker ever made. And they can be picked up used for amazingly little, from about $700 for the 1-D's to about $1800 for the more capable IVa's.

[medium jim]

My 2.5's are said to have excellent bass, nevertheless, it doesn't come close to what is recorded for most genre's.  As such, I find a pair of subs is essential. The added benefit is the use of said subs allows me to run with a pair of tube 70 watt monoblocks.

Jim

[john1970]

I do not have experience with JL Audio F110 with Maggies, but I do own a pair of JL Audio F113 and B&W main speakers.  IMO the JL Audio is an excellent sub with very tight and well defined bass. 

I would consider upgrading to the F112 instead of the F110.

Good luck,

John

[doug s.]

i am sure all the positive talk about jl subs is warranted.  but, for the price, i would also seriously consider gr research's offerings, as well as rhythmik and vmps.  i happen to be quite fond of my almost 20 year old upright style vmps larger subs, updated w/megawoofers.  true accurate response to <20hz; no one-note thump here...

doug s.

[cujobob]

There are plenty of great alternatives online to JL subs. They are very good, I've read, but Ed, Epik, Chase Home Theater, Rhythmik, and GR-Research all offer tremendous value.

[TONEPUB]

The real magic to the JL's is their built in room correction.  You can do it yourself (sometimes with a LOT of screwing around) or you can be plug and play in five min with the JL's.  And the build quality is second to none.

Highly recommended!