[pstrisik]

I've asked Jim the same question.  Jim, if you're reading, feel free to post answer here rather than by email (or both) - thxs.

I had settled on the HT2-TL but just realized that I was confusing the HT3 with the V3, thinking it was an older model and hadn't investigated them.  I realize now that it is the current three-way in the Veracity line.  It is a bit heavier and wider (still within my limits - well under the SS8 in weight) and less sensitive.  It has greater bass response.  Same mid and tweeter drivers.  Not TL design.  Other than bass response, would there be a reason to choose the HT3 over the HT2-TL?   If I did, would I enter into territory needing greater amplification (currently have Emotiva UPA-1 monos – 200wpc at 8ohms)?

I'm most interested in opinions based on experience or based on true knowledge rather than speculation (which I can do just fine ).

I have capable subs (Rythmik) so don't require that extra bit of F3 extension from 34 to 29.  I do want the least fatiguing, most transparent and neutral highs and mids given my hearing issues.  I don't have experience with speakers less sensitive than ~88 so don't know the implications (other than in general needing more power).

I wonder about benefits of allowing the mid driver to focus on just mids and not bass vs. 2 of the mid drivers in the HT2-TL and pros and cons of the TL design in this comparison.

Thanks!

[Big Red Machine]

HT2 all the way.  The HT3 at 84 db is a pain to drive.  If you want to have headroom you need bigger amps.  If not then you are okay.  But from ther waist up and with you adding in the sub, then HT2 all day.

[Nuance]

^ What he said.

[pstrisik]

Thanks guys.  You're making my life simpler!

It sounds like the difference between 88 and 84 sensitivity is huge.  I guess that makes sense when people talk about doubling power for 3db, though I don't know if that is the same db when talking sensitivity.

[Nuance]

Thanks guys.  You're making my life simpler!

It sounds like the difference between 88 and 84 sensitivity is huge.  I guess that makes sense when people talk about doubling power for 3db, though I don't know if that is the same db when talking sensitivity.

Thanks guys.  You're making my life simpler!

It sounds like the difference between 88 and 84 sensitivity is huge.  I guess that makes sense when people talk about doubling power for 3db, though I don't know if that is the same db when talking sensitivity.

It is pretty huge, yes.  I can honestly say that after experiencing amplifier clipping/distortion this passed weekend.  HT2-TL's all the way.

[jackman]

Both speakers are really nice and I don't think you can go wrong with either.  Those big Emotiva amps should be able to drive the HT3's without any issues.  If I had to choose between the two, I'd get the HT2's and have Jim build you a couple matching subs.  This would require a bit more effort but would allow you to dial in the bass more precisely and add some EQ.  Some people don't have room for the extra subs and there may be a WAF issue with external subs. 

Also, please keep in mind, companies like Salk are very honest with their specifications.  Some commercial speaker manufacturers fudge their numbers to make their products seem more efficient than they really are.  I'm pretty sure the HT3's are not as inefficient as you might think.  Both the HT2TL's and HT3's are very impressive looking and well designed.  Good luck with your decision.

[pstrisik]

Both speakers are really nice and I don't think you can go wrong with either.  Those big Emotiva amps should be able to drive the HT3's without any issues.  If I had to choose between the two, I'd get the HT2's and have Jim build you a couple matching subs.  This would require a bit more effort but would allow you to dial in the bass more precisely and add some EQ.  Some people don't have room for the extra subs and there may be a WAF issue with external subs. 

Also, please keep in mind, companies like Salk are very honest with their specifications.  Some commercial speaker manufacturers fudge their numbers to make their products seem more efficient than they really are.  I'm pretty sure the HT3's are not as inefficient as you might think.  Both the HT2TL's and HT3's are very impressive looking and well designed.  Good luck with your decision.

Thanks Jackman.  I already have a pair of Rythmik F12 subs.  Not built by Salk, but same components I believe.  Cabinets are not as beefy.  And the Emo's are not the brutish XPA models - they are the somewhat smaller UPAs.  Still great amps for the money (were under $300 each).  Even if Jim is conservative in his specs, there is the relative difference between the two Salk models.  So a question would be, "how significant is a 4db difference in sensitivity?" 

It may also be an advantage to HT3 that the upper cabinet edges are not parallel.

[jsalk]

This is a somewhat timely thread since I received this email this afternoon from a customer who just upgraded from the HT2-TL's to the HT3's...

"...I also wanted to share with you my first impressions on the HT3's vs the HT2-TL's. I feel that they are probably one of the most accurate speakers I have ever heard. They are power hungry compared to the HT2-TL. The HT3's take everything my McIntosh MC402 has to offer and I can tell they want more. But man what a difference. I believe they are on a completely higher playing field compared to HT2-TL's. Both are great speakers but I am just totally impressed by the HT3'S, and there is probably more to come once they are broke in. As far as an upgade I feel they are worth every penny."

So this is always a tough question to answer.  There are pros and cons of going with any given speaker design.

A few years back, I had a customer who wanted SongTowers and I thought they would be a good match for him.  Later, after he upgraded to the HT2-TL's, he gave me good-natured grief for selling him the wrong speakers in the first place.  So I have to watch my tendency to try and determine the least costly path for customers.  I don't want to sell them short.

In this case, there are some advantages to the HT3's.  But they do require more power.  A 4db difference in sensitivity may not sound like much, but you need more than twice the power to reach the same SPL levels.  I don't think they would be a good match for the UPA amps.  Another thing to consider is that they are somewhat harder to place in a room since they are rear ported and not a transmission line.

While they weigh and cost a bit more, the SoundScape 8's should be considered as well.  They don't place as much demand on amplification (being roughly the same sensitivity as the HT2-TL's) and they are very easy to place in a room (due to the horizontally-opposed passives).  They are also slightly narrower than the HT3's which some people might find advantageous.

All that said, the HT2-TL's, especially with a good sub, do a very good job indeed.

Hopefully this will help.

- Jim

[Nuance]

While they weigh and cost a bit more, the SoundScape 8's should be considered as well.  They don't place as much demand on amplification (being roughly the same sensitivity as the HT2-TL's) and they are very easy to place in a room (due to the horizontally-opposed passives).  They are also slightly narrower than the HT3's which some people might find advantageous.


- Jim

I totally agree with this: the SoundScape 8's are easily the best speaker I've heard under $16,000.  They are at the top of my list for my next and final speaker upgrade.  If you can foot the bill for the SoundScape 8's please do it; you will not regret it.

[Big Red Machine]

The HT3 is a wonderful speaker and I enjoyed it.  But I could never over-feed it (and it began to piss me off!)  Amps up to 600 wpc and it kept on taking every watt with ease.  If your amps are not up to it, then you'll be shopping for those next.

THE SS8's are just as easy to drive as the HT2's and I started out with exactly the same volume setting with the 8's as the HT2's.

That new owner quote below is exactly how I reacted over time. 

Peter, you already made up your mind to go HT2's anyways.  You should stop second guessing yourself.

[pstrisik]

Thanks Jim, appreciate the detailed reply.  My AOCD (audio obsessive compulsive disorder) has been activated.  I may need medication!

It seems to me that the HT3s become impractical given the sensitivity difference despite other advantages.  Opening this up however, has me questioning my decision about HT2-TL over SS8s.  My only decision stopping concern about the SoundScapes has been the weight (cost is definitely a consideration, but I could swing it).  I'm wondering if I will end up with nagging doubts about what I'm missing without them.  They would be great for my purposes now once I get them here and set up.  I've been worried about the future move out of Alaska in 5-7 years to a new space which is of unknown dimensions and character.  Perhaps I should be thinking about the next 5-7 years and enjoying the best.  If they won't work out for the next move, it seems they are very marketable.  Could probably get at least what the replacements would cost if I were downsizing.

Jim... I think I'll call and discuss my original question about the mids/highs difference between HT2-TL and SS8 once more as well as whether shipping 130+ lbs. times two, plus the center, to AK would cost a ridiculous amount.

Pete...  can you say more about what you mean by: "That new owner quote below is exactly how I reacted over time. "

As far as the second guessing.  We all know about this phenomenon and have experienced it multiple times.  The difficulty is telling the difference between pure anxiety about the decision and a real issue that will matter later.  It's very hard to know the true answer before the purchase and only the purchaser can truly decide.  Input is incredibly helpful though.  (One example:  I originally bought the Onkyo 5008 AVR and decided to switch over to 5508 pre/pro with external amps.  I thought the AVR would be plenty for me despite the hard decision before purchase - in that case I was wrong).

Nuance - what is your opinion about the HT2-TL vs. SS8 differences above 100hz (naturalness, imaging, separation).  If I did go with the SS8, the low end would not be the primary reason.

Thanks to all....

[jd3]

I was in the same boat a couple months ago...on the fence between HT-3's and HT2's.  I always wanted HT3's, and after SongTowers, HT1-TLs and Songbirds, figured they made the most sense as an upgrade for the 'last' speaker I'd buy.  After corresponding with Pete, Jim and Nuance, I decided to go with HT2's though.  Easier to place in a room and I didn't have to invest in big watt amps. (Though now I probably will end up with a bigger amp anyway!)

[pstrisik]

I was in the same boat a couple months ago...on the fence between HT-3's and HT2's.  I always wanted HT3's, and after SongTowers, HT1-TLs and Songbirds, figured they made the most sense as an upgrade for the 'last' speaker I'd buy.  After corresponding with Pete, Jim and Nuance, I decided to go with HT2's though.  Easier to place in a room and I didn't have to invest in big watt amps. (Though now I probably will end up with a bigger amp anyway!)

Come on now!  How about something about how they sound and how you like them and how your decision is sitting with you!

"they made the most sense as an upgrade for the 'last' speaker I'd buy."  Famous last words, eh? 

[Big Red Machine]

The 8's are the best of the lot soundwise.

The HT3 will continually want more power and if you don't drive your system hard will be okay with an okay amp.  I always want the best possible and to push the limits and I could never hit the limits with the HT3 because of their power hungry nature.  That's me.

If you can swing the 8's then do it.

[pstrisik]

The 8's are the best of the lot soundwise.

The HT3 will continually want more power and if you don't drive your system hard will be okay with an okay amp.  I always want the best possible and to push the limits and I could never hit the limits with the HT3 because of their power hungry nature.  That's me.

If you can swing the 8's then do it.

Thanks Pete, they are back in serious consideration.

[jd3]

Come on now!  How about something about how they sound and how you like them and how your decision is sitting with you!

"they made the most sense as an upgrade for the 'last' speaker I'd buy."  Famous last words, eh?  [/quote



I don't have them yet...hopefully they will be done next week.



Yeah, I say that but my wife knows better.....

[yetis]

Thanks Pete, they are back in serious consideration.

This is a reminiscent thread.. I went through this exact process. Starting with the latest HT2, and went to HT3 and finally settled on the Ss8's.

I should note it was a 6-7 month process. Iooking forward to my Ss8's.

[Kinger]

Hello, my name is Mike (Hiiiiiiiiii Miiiiiiiiiiike) and I would just like to publicly admit I'm jealous of all of you guys who have the financial resources to purchase HT2-TL's and up in Jim's lineup   Maybe someday I'll be able to upgrade from my ST/RT's with the LCY.   

[Big Red Machine]

Hello, my name is Mike (Hiiiiiiiiii Miiiiiiiiiiike) and I would just like to publicly admit I'm jealous of all of you guys who have the financial resources to purchase HT2-TL's and up in Jim's lineup   Maybe someday I'll be able to upgrade from my ST/RT's with the LCY.   

You made that courageous first step Mike.  Congrats!

[pstrisik]

Hello, my name is Mike (Hiiiiiiiiii Miiiiiiiiiiike) and I would just like to publicly admit I'm jealous of all of you guys who have the financial resources to purchase HT2-TL's and up in Jim's lineup   Maybe someday I'll be able to upgrade from my ST/RT's with the LCY.   

"Hello Mike!"

AA = audioholics anonymous?

I've not had the resources to do much with audio until the past five years or so.  How old are you, if you don't mind being public about it.  I'm 58 and bought a pair of used original Advents in ~1975 for $75.  I lived with these for 35 years!  I just sold them last year for .....  $75   . 

I bought used Paradigm Studio 40s for $700 a couple of years ago.  That felt like a big step.  I've decided to go for it this time.  I never would have been able to do so financially or psychologically even 10 years ago.

So, if you are in your 40s or younger, maybe your time will come.  If you are as old as I am or older,  I'll just say "oops!!"    And... your songs are much better than anything I have owned, ever (so far).