Why do you need the Squeezebox Touch when you can have this?

celo · « **on:** 18 Apr 2012, 12:37 pm »

I had discussed something similar to this question but I wanted to get a better answer. Here is the question:

Say, you have a DAC (any DAC) and you are using with Airport Express playing via iTunes (iMac or whatever). So this way, you have wireless music.

Why do you need the Squeezebox Touch instead a DAC/w wireless connection?

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Apr 2012, 12:49 pm »

I would say that you likely do not, given the investment you have already made in wireless infrastructure and in DAC that you like.

For those with less invested, the Logitech devices can provide an alternative to the gear that you mention.

I ran a Bolder modded Logitech SB3 for around 6 years, and liked it a lot.

I sold it off to fund other pursuits.

I now have a 2007 Mac mini, and using a usb-spdif device to feed toslink to my receiver.

Less fidelity in my case? For sure.

celo · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Apr 2012, 12:54 pm »

I actually only invested a small amount of money to the DAC and I already had the AE. However, I wonder if the SB Touch will be THAT good in sound if I get it. If so, why do people get DACs? Just a preference? It certainly will be much easier to play/handle songs with SBT.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Apr 2012, 01:13 pm »

To me the Touch is a convenient interface, that's all. I want the dac feeding the preamp to be the prime source of fidelity in the system. Can I use a USB connection from a computer to do this? Yes, but not with my current dac unless I obtain a converter.

In the end, the dac in the Touch is only acceptable if you do not care about the highest fidelity sound. Otherwise it is a convenient interface that a USB connection and a computer with a USB-equipped dac can do as well and probably better.

firedog · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Apr 2012, 01:30 pm »

The Touch is a good user interface and the SB software is very feature laden and useful

The touch will play hi-res natively up to 24/96; with the new app it will play up to 24/196 and can also be used with it's USB port as a USB source to a USB DAC.

The SQ of the Touch as a digital transport is superior (quite good, in fact). It has a good DAC, but if you have an external DAC of good quality it is probably better.

If you aren't interested in any of these features, no reason to have it.

eclein · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Apr 2012, 01:33 pm »

Big Red I thought the same thing and tried it for awhile, and I just remember having to change the settings around all the time, disconnecting and reconnecting numerous times for everything to see each other. Now I was using lower-fi equipment than you guys do but the ease the SB touch brings to the table is worth it to me. Instant interface that works.

Easy to install and run, and like you say its all in the dac after it transports from the SB to in my case coax output to my DAC/Pre-amp and also for me it frees up my laptop which is where the server runs and grabs music from an external HDD so I can still use the laptop for anything else. As long as the server is running I'm golden, on very few occasions have I had to screw around with it, which is probably the kiss of death now that I posted that last sentence!!

Keoma · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Apr 2012, 05:01 pm »

I absolutely love my SB Touch. Personally, I find it unbeatable when it comes to its interface lay-out, options, flexibility and overall user-friendliness. It is simply a joy to use. The Squeezebox server program is solid, too, and I appreciate the fact that you can, in a way, keep your computer separate from the rest of your system. That is one of its main advantages, in my opinion. You could have the computer in a different room, even, which eliminates the dreaded "fan noise" issue.

I also believe that the best server is the one you build (and are able to upgrade and expand) yourself. Case in point: I use the $250 Squeezebox Touch, a $350 Acer netbook (W7, dual-core processor, internal 500GB drive, 4GB of RAM, running and storing NOTHING save for my lossless files, to minimize CPU load), an $80 external 2TB Western Digital drive, an $80 Netgear router, and an $40 Audioquest RJ45 ethernet cable. This system plays anything you throw at it, including FLAC, AIFF and ALAC, hi-res (including 192 now!), can be controlled via iPad or iWhatever (for free), and has tons of room for expansion and upgrades. Total cost: +/- $700. Add the DAC of your choice, or simply use the one that comes with the Touch (way, WAY under-rated, in my opinion, since I believe it sounds great myself, very musical and pleasing) and you are in business!

This new approach to music playback is still very much in its infancy. I wouldn't contemplate spending more than $1K, tops, on any server or similar contraption at the moment. Dacs, computers, USB media and storage devices become obsolete too quickly and/or something better and more flexible comes along at a considerably cheaper price the second you take your wallet out. Soon, we'll have something like a Musical fidelity CLiC (which combines a DAC with multiple inputs, a preamp, an USB reader and a wi-fi streamer, among other things, and includes a built-in screen for content browsing... and now costs $2K+) for +/- $600. Give it a another year or so and products like that will be everywhere, with better interfaces, easier set-up's, less bugs, wider format compatibility, and better sound.

mitch stl · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Apr 2012, 07:46 pm »

Quote from: celo on 18 Apr 2012, 12:37 pm

I had discussed something similar to this question but I wanted to get a better answer. Here is the question:

Say, you have a DAC (any DAC) and you are using with Airport Express playing via iTunes (iMac or whatever). So this way, you have wireless music.

Why do you need the Squeezebox Touch instead a DAC/w wireless connection?

Basically, this is just a "different strokes for different folks" question. The Touch has a very nice interface and is very flexible in terms of control - you can select music from the Touch, with its remote, from a web interface on any computer, use a smartphone, iPad, Kindle or other gear.

The Squeezebox system easily supports multiple players that can be synced for the whole-house music deal, or left separate so your kid can enjoy his music in his room while mom is listening to internet radio in the kitchen and dad is catching up with Beethoven in the study. All of that is supported by a single server.

The stock Squeezebox Touch sounds great, is easily tweaked and hassle free to use with upgrades.

Those things are important to some people and less so to others. There are certainly a lot of other computer-based playback systems on the market and some may prefer other choices.

This is just like any other equipment discussion in audio, whether speakers, amps, CD players or whatever - lots of opinions to choose from. You're never going to have a universal consensus.

eclein · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Apr 2012, 08:31 pm »

Quote from: Keoma on 19 Apr 2012, 05:01 pm

..... Add the DAC of your choice, or simply use the one that comes with the Touch (way, WAY under-rated, in my opinion, since I believe it sounds great myself, very musical and pleasing) and you are in business!

This new approach to music playback is still very much in its infancy. I wouldn't contemplate spending more than $1K, tops, on any server or similar contraption at the moment.

Keoma, I'm with you on both of these points. Actually liking the analog outputs on a SB is like so taboo but I've always thought they are very musical.

..and your second point is right on also. The Olive units and some others are so expensive its seems silly to me to even think about them at this point in time. I see the SB written up in a ton of hifi magazines every year for ease of use and sound quality "Bang for the BUCK".

Keoma · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Apr 2012, 11:56 pm »

Quote from: eclein on 19 Apr 2012, 08:31 pm

Keoma, I'm with you on both of these points. Actually liking the analog outputs on a SB is like so taboo but I've always thought they are very musical.

Thanks, eclein! I really do not understand why, but you are 100% right: it seems it IS taboo to even hint at the fact that the SB Touch's internal DAC might be all you could really need. Then again, manufacturers need to sell you their own DACs. I'm sure you could improve resolution, add a hint more air, more extension, maybe sharper focus and/or a wider soundstage, and this and that, but the bottom line is that you DO get a nicely delineated, warm and musical presentation. I have been thinking about trying the Schiit Bifrost as a sensible, affordable and fully upgradable option (that has a linear power supply instead of a wal-wart) when it comes to an external DAC, but every time I am about to pull the trigger I sit down to listen and I have to admit I am really satisfied with what's coming from the SB itself! For $250, what you get is uncanny.

mitch stl · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Apr 2012, 12:38 am »

Quote from: Keoma on 19 Apr 2012, 11:56 pm

Thanks, eclein! I really do not understand why, but you are 100% right: it seems it IS taboo to even hint at the fact that the SB Touch's internal DAC might be all you could really need. Then again, manufacturers need to sell you their own DACs. I'm sure you could improve resolution, add a hint more air, more extension, maybe sharper focus and/or a wider soundstage, and this and that, but the bottom line is that you DO get a nicely delineated, warm and musical presentation. I have been thinking about trying the Schiit Bifrost as a sensible, affordable and fully upgradable option (that has a linear power supply instead of a wal-wart) when it comes to an external DAC, but every time I am about to pull the trigger I sit down to listen and I have to admit I am really satisfied with what's coming from the SB itself! For $250, what you get is uncanny.

I'll participate in this heresy. Before the Touch, I had a SB3 with a Lavry DA-10 DAC. On getting the Touch, I ran the SB3/Lavry back-to-back against the analog outs of the Touch - synced and level matched. I found after several weeks I could not reliably tell which combo was the source without checking the position of the input selector knob on the amp. So I sold the Lavry, put the Touch in my main system and kept the SB3 for an office stereo.

That was 2 years ago and haven't had second thoughts about an external DAC since. Count me happy.

lcrim · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Apr 2012, 02:31 am »

I am on my second generation of SqueezeBoxen with a pair of Touch and a server away in a laundry room (an Atom processor NetBook). At present I use the Bolder analog modded internal DACs but the new Enhanced Digital Output app has me scheming a way to take advantage of the greater resolution that provides. The sound quality has always been at a reasonable cost. The concept of using ethernet to send music around has always made sense to me (as a network guy.) The technology is stable and easy to use and understand and while I'd probably like an iphone, I'm not a fan of the rest of the Apple walled garden of toys.
Larry

Turnandcough · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Apr 2012, 01:24 pm »

I'm on my second SB as well. The first time I saw a SB3 on demo I immediately knew that I wanted one. When the Touch came out I managed to get my hands on one way before they became available here in Canada.

I had more or less dropped hi-fi a few years ago but the SB got me back on the merry-go-round.

There may be better performing options($$$) out there but the low cost, tons of features and ease of operation of the SB seem like a no-brainer to me.

If I decided to explore other options I might consider the Mac Mini/Audiophileo combo but for now I'm still happy with my Touch.

Current setup like many is: PC wired to Bolder modded Touch + TT 3.0, CIA power supply, modded EE MiniMax DAC

eclein · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Apr 2012, 02:09 pm »

We are Rebels...LOL!!!! Thanks guys!!

celo · « **Reply #14 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 06:35 am »

Thank you all for your replies. However, after last night, I am more confused. Please see the below link. I opened a new thread but mods can combine them if it is needed.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105834.0

JLM · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 09:08 am »

So is the Touch/software really easy to setup and glitch proof?

I had a modded SB3 and gave up because of these issues (I'm definitely a computer dunce).

celo · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 09:16 am »

I am actually very happy to use wireless and I have had almost zero problems but the difference between the CD player and DAC/AE combo confused me a lot. I do not want to mess with the CDs but I also do not want to give up that sound for convenience.

ajzepp · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 09:51 am »

I had a Squeezebox Duet and loved it. I started having connectivity issues with it, at which time it became a huge hassle. After spending some time with a usb-to-s/pdif adapter and enjoying that arrangement, I've since gone back to wireless with an Apple Airport Express. I have yet to have a single issue with either the AEX or the iPhone "Remote" app that I use to control my music.

I was happy to see the other day, when I got around to firing up my old Duet and updating the firmware, that it connected to my network and was able to stream my music very efficiently. It look as if they finally got some of the bugs worked out and as a result I can honestly say that I'd buy another SB product in the future. But until then, I have no interest in getting rid of my AEX!

wisnon · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 12:29 pm »

I think the big difference is that Airport can only do 16/44 while the Duet can do 24/48 and the Touch can do 24/96.

The SB setup can deal with lower echelon Hires while the Airport is strictly restricted to RBCD streaming...

hibuckhobby · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Apr 2012, 01:24 pm »

Quote from: wisnon on 27 Apr 2012, 12:29 pm

I think the big difference is that Airport can only do 16/44 while the Duet can do 24/48 and the Touch can do 24/96.

The SB setup can deal with lower echelon Hires while the Airport is strictly restricted to RBCD streaming...

Absolutely! The only "glitch" I have with my touch is the server software. for some reasons, there are times I have to rescan my library (about 30 sec) because multiples of the same album start showing up.
Hibuck...