[Frans]

Wow, a whole gaggle of 'em!

[Gzerro]

I need amp, HT preamp and maybe stereo preamp.   I want to run stereo subs.  (Probably Salk Rythmiks).  It seems many of the pre-pro units don't do that.
I plan to set up a 5.2 surround room, and was thinking the music config would be 2.2.

What is your recommendation for a processor? All the name brand processors (like cary, arcam, monitor, etc) seem to only do mono subs, which I don't want. I can't really afford to jump up to the classe, which leaves me really wondering.

Is it possible,  or advisable to run a dedicated 2-channel pre-amp inline with the HT pre-amp?   If so,  which goes first?

I have the same dilemna trying to integrate electronics to handle 2.2 for music with my 5.2 HT. Currently I am just using the Denon 4311 with Audessey XT32 which does a fantastic job with the 2 subs and for me is perfectly fine for HT, but for stereo music I would like to upgrade the electronics.

However, it becomes difficult to find preamps with bass management options for 2 subs. I am not aware of anyone making something like that, although there are a few options with a crossover setting only (Parasound 2100 for example), which would then require another component to handle the PEQ for the subs.

Several preamp manufacturers have a HT Bypass option, where the stereo preamp sits between the pre-outs from your HT processor and your amp. You put your stereo sources into the preamp and the outputs go directly to your amplifer, or in bypass mode the signal just passes through from your HT processor. AVA and Parasound are examples.

I am still investigating various options, so have no specific recommendations. I look forward to seeing what options you may come up with. It seems to get complicated pretty quickly trying to get the best of both worlds in a single system.

[ctouhey]

HT3s and HTC are driven by a McIntosh MC303.  Preamp is the Denon AVP A1HDCI.

-Chris

[adydula]

AVA UltraValve, AVA Insight+ Pre to the SalkSongtowers...simple and awesome.
All music via FLACS from HTPC or Oppo BD83se for HT etc.

Marraige Made in Heaven....

Alex
 

[Frans]

I think "the best of both worlds in a single system" is unrealistic. It's about compromises you are willing to make to to achieve a good balance given a certain budget.

In my case Home Theater was important and two separate systems was out of the question. I philosophically started with world-class floorstanding speakers and picked ones that had available matched centers and surrounds, then turned my receiver into a pre-amp in favor of a more powerful amp. Made my decisions a lot easier.

[Warpdrv]

I think "the best of both worlds in a single system" is unrealistic. It's about compromises you are willing to make to to achieve a good balance given a certain budget.

This is exactly right...   I compromise a bit on music so I can have HT, but in the end....   
With speakers such as Salk SS's - your 99% of the way there already...   

I can more then live with what I have and the SQ for me is still spectacular...   

[pstrisik]

I'm with both of you.  I currently have AVR pre/pro (Onkyo 5508) and wouldn't want to give up the flexibility and Audyssey multieq xt32.  I have three Emo UPA-1 amps for LCR - 200watts each, and one UPA-2 for the surrounds.  Have SS8s coming.  I've considered a pre-amp with HT bypass, but I would be giving up the Audyssey room correction and bass calibration and don't want to do that.  So I'm thinking the next step might be a change in amps.  Could be just a two channel to replace two of the Emos.  If I did that, it could be tube or hybrid and it would be same or smaller size that two monoblocks.  Have lots of investigating to do regarding tube/hybrid/solid state/class D pros and cons in sound character though. 

In the 1990's, I had opportunity to hear conrad-johnson tube setup with top of the line B&W nautilus speakers and was blown away and have never forgotten that experience. I listened to Janis Joplin singing "Little Girl Blue" and was brought to tears - literally.  I have come a long way in what I am used to since then, so don't know if I would be as impressed today, but keeps me interested in tube possibilities.

[Frans]

I listened to Janis Joplin singing "Little Girl Blue" and was brought to tears - literally.

What was the source of that audio, CD?

[Gzerro]

Perhaps "best" was a poor choice of words, as of course there are always comprimises. I don't disagree with anything in your post, but I wouldn't take it so far as to say you must only use an HT oriented Prepro for all sources.

The OP expressed a desire to integrate a dedicated 2 channel pre-amp into his HT system, which is relatively straightforward and many would consider this a worthwhile upgrade over an AVR as pre-pro. The bass management for two subs is really the tricky part, but there are solutions for that as well.

[Warpdrv]

The OP expressed a desire to integrate a dedicated 2 channel pre-amp into his HT system, which is relatively straightforward and many would consider this a worthwhile upgrade over an AVR as pre-pro. The bass management for two subs is really the tricky part, but there are solutions for that as well.

My only problem with this integration is that its such a hassle to integrate a 2 channel scenario with subs involved.
If your running a 2 channel HT bypass with full range speakers and no subs its not nearly as difficult. Bass Management with subs with your 2 channel bypass is alot of work... I'm not saying its impossible, as I did it, but all the monkeying around to me just isn't worth it...    in the end it all boiled down to simplicity.....

Obviously to each their own and I commend anyone for working towards perfection...

[Frans]

My only problem with this integration is that its such a hassle to integrate a 2 channel scenario with subs involved.

Subwoofers are very much associated with home theaters. Any pure-play 2 channel audio system would must borrow multi-channel DNA to "do it all".

This is why I chose full-range floorstanding speakers so they could function with or without a subwoofer. I researched some Parasound and Cary bypass solutions. I do hear that folks are getting great results with tube pre-amps and digital amps, so there is plenty of experimentation to be done.

Right now I am happy with a powerful multichannel amplifier-  it sounds amazing regardless of whether I am playing 2, 2.1, or 5.1ch.

As Warpdrv said: simplicity! No regrets! No monkeying around with bypasses!  #winning!

[pstrisik]

What was the source of that audio, CD?

It is on the Kozmic Blues album (I Got Dem Ol' Kozmic Blues Again Mama!) as well as some compilations.





"Little Girl Blue"

Sit there, hmm, count your fingers.
What else, what else is there to do ?
Oh and I know how you feel,
I know you feel that you're through.
Oh wah wah ah sit there, hmm, count,
Ah, count your little fingers,
My unhappy oh little girl, little girl blue, yeah.

Oh sit there, oh count those raindrops
Oh, feel 'em falling down, oh honey all around you.
Honey don't you know it's time,
I feel it's time,
Somebody told you 'cause you got to know
That all you ever gonna have to count on
Or gonna wanna lean on
It's gonna feel just like those raindrops do
When they're falling down, honey, all around you.
Oh, I know you're unhappy.

Oh sit there, ah go on, go on
And count your fingers.
I don't know what else, what else
Honey have you got to do.
And I know how you feel,
And I know you ain't got no reason to go on
And I know you feel that you must be through.
Oh honey, go on and sit right back down,
I want you to count, oh count your fingers,
Ah my unhappy, my unlucky
And my little, oh, girl blue.
I know you're unhappy,
Ooh ah, honey I know,
Baby I know just how you feel.

[Frans]

It is on the Kozmic Blues album (I Got Dem Ol' Kozmic Blues Again Mama!) as well as some compilations.

I was wondering what the source was (i.e. CD, SACD, Vinyl, etc). This can have a huge bearing on the results, especially when a savvy salesman tilts the field in his favor by picking something that sounds exceptionally good. I have the Big Brother and the Holding Company CD but would never even think of using it to demo as it sounds pretty muddy on any system.

[pstrisik]

I was wondering what the source was (i.e. CD, SACD, Vinyl, etc). This can have a huge bearing on the results, especially when a savvy salesman tilts the field in his favor by picking something that sounds exceptionally good. I have the Big Brother and the Holding Company CD but would never even think of using it to demo as it sounds pretty muddy on any system.

Oh, sorry!  It was CD.  This was in the 90's, before many other sources were available.  I brought it in myself.  Along with "Nebuchadnezzar" by Marcus Roberts.  Great for soundstage and detail with symbols, defined bass, and midrange with trombone.

It was studio version of this:
http://www.videodetective.com/music/nebuchadnezzar/134170
studio version is a better performance IMO though.

edit: as I listen - the studio version is a much better performance - from the CD "Deep in the Shed".

[mick wolfe]

I am very interested to find out what amplifiers everyone is using to power their Salks!

What speakers do you have?

What amp/pre-amp for stereo?  What about surround?

Cheers!

Standard SongTowers here. 2 channel application used with Bob Latino ST 70 or ST120 power amps.( tubes ) Solid state... used Music Hall a25.2 integrated. Excellent results with all mentioned

[Gzerro]

My only problem with this integration is that its such a hassle to integrate a 2 channel scenario with subs involved.
If your running a 2 channel HT bypass with full range speakers and no subs its not nearly as difficult. Bass Management with subs with your 2 channel bypass is alot of work... I'm not saying its impossible, as I did it, but all the monkeying around to me just isn't worth it...    in the end it all boiled down to simplicity.....

Obviously to each their own and I commend anyone for working towards perfection...

I agree it adds complexity. But again, the OP indicated he has 20K worth of speakers and a 10K budget for electronics. Certainly a system of that quality could benefit from improvements beyond adding an external amp.

Whether it is worth the complexity certainly depends on the individual -for me its kind of fun, but then again I have been told I am bit strange .

We are in total agreement about people working towards their own definition of perfection.

[Gzerro]

Subwoofers are very much associated with home theaters. Any pure-play 2 channel audio system would must borrow multi-channel DNA to "do it all".

This is why I chose full-range floorstanding speakers

I think alot of 2-channel folks would disagree with this (maybe not most, but many). Subwoofers can have great advantages in some 2-channel environments over full range floorstanders. For example the placement of my mains results in a deep null at the listening position (a compromise to WAF etc). I have some room treatments which help, but it would take ALOT of room treatments completely solve it.

The easiest solution was to add a pair of subs. I can place them where they have the best FR (and maintain WAF etc at least in my case). I don't really need PEQ for reasonably flat bass FR anymore (stills helps a bit), which subtracts a level of complexity. I couldn't achieve that in my room with full range floor standers.

Again, I am not saying that it is the only way, or is best for everyone, just that all rooms/listeners are different and we make the best choices we can to get the desired end result within our own constraints.

Making a blanket statement that a high end AVR is the only option for stereo sources, just because he has 5 speakers and it is the simplest approach is doing the OP a disservice imo. Certainly an option he should consider, and it works for many, but not necessarily the only solution for everyone.

Sorry if I have hi-jacked this thread. It wasn't my intention.

Perhaps we should return to discussion of power amps..

[matt_garman]

I am very interested to find out what amplifiers everyone is using to power their Salks!

What speakers do you have?

What amp/pre-amp for stereo?  What about surround?

I have standard Songtowers in a 2.0 setup (i.e. no sub, no surround).

Preamp/DAC = Emotiva XDA-1
Power amp = Class D Audio SDS-470.

I learned of the Class D Audio amps via this gargantuan thread in the Cheap & Cheerful circle here on AC.

(I actually have two, one I built myself from the kit, and one complete amp which shipped pre-built.)

I'm immensely happy with the sound of this amp.  It's a lot of watts (600 at 4ohms) for the price!

[vermont99]

My HT-3’s with the RAAL are powered with 2 Emotiva XPA-1’s and they sound fantastic no need for a sub when listening to 2 channel they love the power.

[squirrel_nut]

well i dont have my STs yet, but the electronics awaiting them are
EAD  signature-8
Parasound hca-855 amp
Oppo 83SE
BJ speak cables and home made interconnects

i hope the Parasound and Oppo are up to snuff. the EAD stays.