[mca]

I have been using Logitech/Slimdevices units for years. Touch, Duet, Transporter, SB3. Most have had digital mods by Bolder cable feeding an outboard DAC.

I have a chance to buy a 2010 Mac Mini for a very good price from a friend of mine. My question is, without spending a bunch more money, can the Mini surpass my Bolder modded Touch in sound quality?

I know nothing about Macs, so getting everything figured out and setup would be quite a chore for me. I don't want to tackle all of this if I don't get a good jump in sound quality in the end.

[wilsynet]

Which DAC do you have?

[Noseyears]

Each have their own advantages. What are you looking for besides sound quality? (special features?)

Does your friend allows you to have a quick demo of the Mac mini?

[mca]

I have a Havana and a EE DAC.

I am looking for sound quality above all, but getting rid of wireless streaming would be nice also!

[Gopher]

If you have the original minimax dac, you should be aware the USB input is inferior to spdif.  You'll lose high res and likely suffer a downgrade on redbook.

[saisunil]

I think computer audio is so much about how we use ...
So if you are used to touch ... Why not stick with that user interface and mode of use

Ok ok I get it ... I am after the same illusion ... Get a little closer to the performance

[wilsynet]

Unless your DAC has an excellent USB implementation, I expect that the SB Touch with Bolder digital mods will be better than the Mac Mini as a transport.

[cujobob]

I think the Mac Mini is a lot more useful, personally, but in terms of SQ alone, with mods the Mac Mini can be super high-end

[Noseyears]

We have a similar thread, you can also check for some ideas on the topic.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91537.0

[Bigfishhk]

I would like to get a player for digital files (flac etc)

I have an EE minimax dac plus. I borrowed a macbook pro, using Audirvana, and hooked it up. Very pleased with SQ.

So I am tempted to go the Mac Mini or macbook pro route.

However I also have my eye on the SB TOUCH. Running it through the EE Dac +, and tethered to a ex hard drive, would it have comparable SQ at a much better price? (around $250 for touch and $100 for HD)

Since the EE dac does the dig-analog conversion I am guessing the main difference in Touch vs MAC, would be the software of the Touch vs Audirvana/Itunes.

Are there any other considerations?

I also have a Imac desktop but it in another room. I don't think it would stream large files smoothly via wifi to the Touch which is why I see the ex HD as best option.

system:
NAD 545 bee cdp
EE minimax dacplus
Krell kav 400xi int amp
Salk song tower speakers
Rythmik f12 sub


thank you

TOm

[firedog]

I don't know how it will compare to the Mini, but the Touch to a good DAC like yours gives excellent sound. It's a very good transport.

Anyway, you can get the Touch and the external drive, and if at some point you're not satisfied, get a Mini. You can even still use the Touch as an additional interface with the Mini, even if you connect the Mini directly to your DAC for your main listening.

BTW, I think Logitech and some other vendors will let you return the Touch if you aren't satisfied. If you look around the net, you can find a Touch for anything from $175 (if you have patience) to $260, so you aren't risking much.

There can sometimes be issues with the Touch and external drives. Apparently it depends on the drive. Some work well with the Touch, some don't. I have an Iomega USB drive that works fine with it.

Try looking at forums.slimdevices.com for the "Touch with external drive" thread. Some users couldn't get the setup to work properly, others - like me - haven't had problems. See which people were happy with their drives, and get one of those.

[JEaton]

I am looking for sound quality above all, but getting rid of wireless streaming would be nice also!

That's an odd desire. Network streaming is one of the greatest conveniences of the Squeezebox approach to computer audio. No need to have a computer in the listening room, easy remote control from several choices of user interface, centralized file storage and management, the ability to have one server feed multiple players all around the house.

To each his own, I guess.

[Bigfishhk]

There can sometimes be issues with the Touch and external drives. Apparently it depends on the drive. Some work well with the Touch, some don't. I have an Iomega USB drive that works fine with it.

thanks for feedback. For connection, what is best way to connect to the DAC? I don't think the SB touch has USB out. currently I have a consumer USB cable from MAcbook Pro to DAc and I am surprised how good SQ is.

the other thing I have seen mentioned on the circles is the relative lack of power and memory in the SB Touch being an issue re slow or interrupted playback of big files, but it sounds like you are not having that problem so that's promising.
Am wondering if and when a new SB Touch is arriving. Seems like a while since they released it.
best
TOm

[firedog]

The standard touch has optical and coax spdif outs.

There's now an add on app which gives the Touch 24/192 capability and USB out.
The disadvantages: it disables the analoge outs and the Touch USB port becomes an out to your USB DAC, and can't be used to connect an external HD. So it's only useful for those using the Touch with some type of server, and not with an external USB drive for music storage.

[mitch stl]

... the other thing I have seen mentioned on the circles is the relative lack of power and memory in the SB Touch being an issue re slow or interrupted playback of big files, but it sounds like you are not having that problem so that's promising.
Am wondering if and when a new SB Touch is arriving. Seems like a while since they released it.

I've owned the Touch since they were first released 2 years ago. I've never had an issue of either slow response or interrupted playback, and I have a large collection that includes lengthy single classical tracks.

The key is it is strongly recommended the Touch be used with an external server. (I just recently retired my old server and replaced it with a Vortexbox.) You should avoid using the Touch with only an external USB drive. The external drive direct to the Touch works for some but not everyone.

Using an external server is also an easy way to keep the computer, with its fans, HD noise and RFI, out of the listening room.

[Bigfishhk]

I've owned the Touch since they were first released 2 years ago. I've never had an issue of either slow response or interrupted playback, and I have a large collection that includes lengthy single classical tracks.

The key is it is strongly recommended the Touch be used with an external server. (I just recently retired my old server and replaced it with a Vortexbox.) You should avoid using the Touch with only an external USB drive. The external drive direct to the Touch works for some but not everyone.

thanks for this input. In some ways it reinforces my concerns about SB Touch.
1. it's not stable with alot of USB HD
2. it works well with a server. But if I went that route I may as well get a MAcMini with 500G and ex HD options. the total cost is going to be about $800 (with small monitor and keyboard.) Can run a no of different software and have considerable processing and memory power.

Am I missing something or is the cost of server plus DAc comparable?

tom

[Daedalus Audio]

one of the things I really like about a system based on the SB Touch is the you really don't need a dedicated computer/server for great sound.  plus the computer does NOT need to be anywhere near the system. a long (50ft plus) ethernet cable works great for hi-res files .  I know there will be disagreement but my preference for HD is a firewire connection not USB. of course the best is an internal HD in a power mac in the next room.....

[saisunil]

I would STRONGLY suggest you to stick with what you have - since you have been happy with the sound - yes better sound can be had - if you know nothing about Macs it may or may not be a lot of fun re-starting again - tweaking, upgrading, debating etc.

Digital / Computer audio changes / improves significantly every year from transports to DACs to software and everything it connects to or comes in contact with ... 

[lcrim]

There is another thread in this Circle begun by Wayne from Bolder Cables which discusses the enhanced digital output app written by a user on the Squeezebox Community forum who calls himself Triode which adds asynchronous USB output to the Touch but also raises the bar on available bit depths up to and including 24/176 and 24/192. 
There are some caveats but in general, unless you are a journalist and need to point to all that expensive Apple hardware  to prove how much you know about computer audio, this app plus a complimentary DAC will allow you to put the music server where it needn't be heard or even seen.  The asynchronous USB DAC will control the clock but you can take it as far as you want. 
Most of what I listen to today is 16/44,100 but now there is a path to hidef w/ the Squeezebox Touch.
Larry

[Bigfishhk]

I would STRONGLY suggest you to stick with what you have - since you have been happy with the sound - yes better sound can be had - if you know nothing about Macs it may or may not be a lot of fun re-starting again - tweaking, upgrading, debating etc.
 

actually I don't have anything to play digital files except a borrowed MAcbook pro which I must return in a a month or so. I tested it with Audirvana player, rather than Itunes.

therefore I am starting from scratch. I do own an ipad and I do own a Imac which is in a mezzanine loft quite far from my sytem in living room.

unless I am getting it wrong, therefore it seems like my choices are

1. SErver / SB Touch (recommended by quite a few)
2  SB Touch, EX Hard drive (mixed response)
3. MAcbook Pro (tried it, pretty good)
4. Mac mini  (recommended by quite a few)

I would be happy with any of the above if SQ comparable. Price then becomes key.

I'm also a little confused, probably due to lack of knowledge on these things, how the server + SB Touch set up would work, since that requires good wifi signal if the server is in another room. I thought that large files did not play so well wirelessly.

In my boat, what would you do?

thanks

TOm