[Cheeseboy]

Continue the burn

[MichaelHiFi]

Closing in on the 100 hour mark I sat down for a listen last night.

It changed since the DAC comparison. It was unlistenable through the Oppo. The low to mids were awesome, but then the rest of the band showed up. 

Scott loaned me his EE Minimax. So there was a DAC off at the house the day before yesterdays short listening session. The EE spread the soundstage width but lost center focus. The Oppo had the solid central image. I tried both coax and optical from the EE through the Oppo and was able to match volumes. They couldn't sound more different in staging but in the end we preferred the Oppo's more focused presentation. This finding was opposite in Morgan house where he had the EE but not the op-amp "upgrade". I though his bested the Oppo through his system which is also Torii powered. I'll revisit when the caps settle down. No winner!

Who's got the NAD?

[corndog71]

Maybe you should try something a bit more old school.  Something like an old Dynaco ST70 or pair of Mk III amps.  Dynakitparts.com sells replica kits at reasonable prices.

I've been having a blast with my own modified ST35.  Combined with my Bottlehead Quickie preamp and X-Statiks my system has never sounded better!

Of course if kits aren't your thing then perhaps something from Conrad Johnson might be up your alley.  Those are known for warm tube sound.  BAT and Rogue or even Jolida all make great tube gear.

[Tyson]

Burn in sucks, you wonder if/when the good sound will eeevvvvveeeeerrrr return.  But it will, in spades.  Be patient.

[MichaelHiFi]

Maybe you should try something a bit more old school.  Something like an old Dynaco ST70 or pair of Mk III amps.  Dynakitparts.com sells replica kits at reasonable prices.

I've been having a blast with my own modified ST35.  Combined with my Bottlehead Quickie preamp and X-Statiks my system has never sounded better!

Of course if kits aren't your thing then perhaps something from Conrad Johnson might be up your alley.  Those are known for warm tube sound.  BAT and Rogue or even Jolida all make great tube gear.

Kits? Heck yes, I want to build an Audio Note kit.

But like Tyson said, I must be patient.

Tonight I sat down and listened to Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat. It was sounding might fine. Better than yesterday but still has a ways to go.

I spun (digitally) Genesis "And Then There Were Three" (who needed Peter anyway). Now this is an album that I have always cherished as Godlike, stuck on an island and don't be without kind of album. It has/had limited dynamic range and is/was rather soft. With the Super V's it really is transformed. As a lot of music that have passed through the drivers of these speakers do seem to possess a certain amount of transformability, excuse me for making up a word. In the past, the bass on this album was always present but not to discernible. And when one really wants to here this album, it's not a one song and change the artist. It's a start to finish or you lose what makes albums of this genre so special. It's something of a story. It should inspire or invoke at least some sort of emotion. It should inspire repeated plays and the more plays, then more repeats. Perhaps not for everyone's musical tastes. 

I digress. Through the Super V's the bass takes on a new presence. It inspires volumes of ridiculous levels. After this post I'll need to crawl under the hose and right the piers (not that there right to begin with). It's epic. You're awestruck. You can sit back and without great attention, follow the bass lines on all the various instruments that play that low. Then we get to the root of the music, the PRAT. It's still a bit confused in the complex stuff, but no worse than I've typically heard in our room. I have high expectations and expect that soon this will unravel to spaces in time all by itself. We are not there yet. There's music behind the glassiness of the highs. The bass inspires volume up, the highs inspire volume down. With less complex music, it's not so much noticeable. Genesis is complex music with a lot going on and no doubt difficult to sort out in its 44.1 format. (Neil Young to the rescue please). So I'm bucking the limits of what? First off of course are the caps. They are simply not ready for prime time. This particular recording will be tough anyway but I've had it singing in a lessor resolved system - my car audio. Don't laugh, I was competing before some of you were born. I was the guy who always lost those competitions. 

So as Tyson said, be patient and we will be rewarded, and I will return to this Genesis album for victory. Maybe even my wife will like it. 
We are at 105 hours.

[SoCalWJS]

Gets frustrating at times, doesn't it?

Hope things will burn in smoothly and you can reach audio nirvana. Keep us all posted as the sound changes (improves?  ).

[HAL]

If you want to help the process along, you can always play some pink noise.  An FM tuner between stations works well for this.  The various test and burn-in CD's usually have pink noise tracks as well.

Just a thought.

[MichaelHiFi]

If you want to help the process along, you can always play some pink noise.  An FM tuner between stations works well for this.  The various test and burn-in CD's usually have pink noise tracks as well.

Just a thought.

I agree, pink noise would speed things along. It would also drive my wife, dad and son out of the house, or force them into meditation.

So instead, my wife got to listen to Josh Groben - while I was away 

I think we turned the corner. Tom Waits last night, he stood in our living room. I had to light his cigarette.    I would say from listening to a few tracks, what's missing is some of the decay which I'm sure will return with further settling of the caps.

Radiohead Kid A, was a completely different album through the V's. The electronica is now delineated and somehow makes more sense as a song. Some songs which I used to skip were now enjoyable to the point where we paid great attention too. The music seems to move slower in that the individual instruments and voices have separated themselves into there own space. Sorry, I have no talent in describing what we are hearing but it is sounding really nice. It's relaxing and it draws you into the music. The bass is showing great texture as well. I'm really impressed with the performance of the servo subs. They can be nuanced and at the same time, destroy the house. 

Now it's time to schedule that get-to-gether. I'm still playing music, softly, during the day, to further settle the caps.

[rbbert]

IMHO, if you're getting appropriately strong bass from "And Then There Were Three" then most albums will be way too bassy.  Just look at a frequency response spectrum plot for that album.  The bass was deliberately mastered low in order to fit the whole thing on LP, and AFAIK that has never been changed for the CD reissues (haven't heard the most recent one).

[MichaelHiFi]

IMHO, if you're getting appropriately strong bass from "And Then There Were Three" then most albums will be way too bassy.  Just look at a frequency response spectrum plot for that album.  The bass was deliberately mastered low in order to fit the whole thing on LP, and AFAIK that has never been changed for the CD reissues (haven't heard the most recent one).

I have to agree with you. I've had to turn the bass down as it seemed a too strong for many cuts following that album. 

[kingdeezie]

Mike,

I am glad that things are working out for you.

Do not fret, the V-caps will come around. I have a buddy who is rocking some seriously high end gear. He has SoundLabs U1s with some antique sound labs modded hurricanes.

He took them back to the gentleman that modded them, and had all of the caps replaced with the new V-cap CUTFs. He said the break in was painful.

One day it was pure bliss, the next day it sounded like complete garbage.

He is happy now however. It will come around for you. 

[MichaelHiFi]

Mike,

I am glad that things are working out for you.

Do not fret, the V-caps will come around. I have a buddy who is rocking some seriously high end gear. He has SoundLabs U1s with some antique sound labs modded hurricanes.

He took them back to the gentleman that modded them, and had all of the caps replaced with the new V-cap CUTFs. He said the break in was painful.

One day it was pure bliss, the next day it sounded like complete garbage.

He is happy now however. It will come around for you. 

Thanks King 

Sounding great now, but I'll bet they regress 

[MichaelHiFi]

Did I say sounding great? 

Last night I was queuing random albums. Happened across The Beatles "Abby Road". Gave that a play.

I thought I listened to this CD before? I was sure, back in my youth. The songs titles sound familiar, Come Together, Maxwell Silver Hammer, I Want You, you remember. Who hasn't listened to Abbey Road? Well, you never listened to Abby Road through the V's. I honestly can't describe it because you heard it all before. It was amazing. It wasn't just a study in sound, rather it was the performance and even more. I wanted to ask John who was having the conversation in the background on many of the song. When the hammer struck (Maxwell Silver Hammer) it wasn't just a sound. I was not able to discern what was struck but it was radically different, more as an object being struck hard and placed distinctly. I don't know what was better. My son and I dancing throughout the cuts  (and I cannot believe how great he dances at 22 months) or the sheer realism of the music. This is 44.1? OK, let's try a fav of mine from a little later time period with not a lot going on except being singer/guitar player ever IMHO. Robin Trower/James Dewar "Twice Removed From Yesterday" Daydream.
This isn't a reference stereo test song by a long shot but simply music that touched my soul. Listening to that I could tell we had reached the limits - so to speak - of the recording. Regardless, it was brilliant in how it portrayed Trower's bluesy guitar sustains with Jim's vocals hauntingly real. Less was always more in this trio.

I was worn out by 9. My illness requires sleep and I think Jr was ready for bed, but being nuclear powered he'd go on if needed.

I'll give my wife a listen today with her finer set of ears and she what she thinks. I'm hopeful Scott will stop by and listen to his EE DAC which was sounding great, different presentation, more spread out, and great. He also has a fine set of ears.

[SoCalWJS]

So, care to share some listening impressions comparing/contrasting to the LS-6'es? 

[MichaelHiFi]

So, care to share some listening impressions comparing/contrasting to the LS-6'es? 

OK, I can do that. We, wife, myself and Dad got serious and tuned the system, not that I though it needed it but the wife was complaining again about something being amiss.

A few days ago I noted issues with my Allnic preamp. There was an odd clicking sound emanating from it. Uh oh 

The following day I discovered that the Power Plant Premier had an output voltage issue only outputting 106VAC. Then I knew it was a starved relay, at least pretty sure. I pulled the plugged on the Allnic from the PPP and went straight to the wall. No more clicking. Late that night I unplugged the PPP then plugged her back in the next morning. All was well, 117VAC. Why is this relevant?

As I mentioned, the caps are breaking in and the V's sound(ed) great, not the very, best but great, very near to or at least as good as the LS6's in their prime. The Power Plant Premier rescued the LS6's many years ago. The Power Plant Premier rescued our system tonight in a way.

SO we sat down and began tuning. Fisrt up, since I had plugged the Allnic into raw wall power, a few night before and replugged back into the PPP. This brought a significant change to the soundstage, the smoothness, the air and the dynamics, a significant change. I simply wasn't prepared for that but I should have been. Next, the Decware amp got a place in the PPP. Another level of just sheer presence emerged. This was exciting stuff. The wife was really happy with what she was hearing now comparing to the best she heard was the LS6's. Time to roll some EL34 tubes 

Running the newest version that ships now with the Decware I had on hand a set of Shuguang Treasures, a set I plugged in early on and didn't like at all - too soft, no dynamics and why would anyone spend this kind of money on tubes?
Plugging those back into the Decware was life altering.     

Now we're levels above the LS6's. Everything was going so well I even tried Scott's Revelation interconnects, either VH-Audio or DH-LAbs, I forgot. Those cable really opened things up and I thought nice. But after about a half an hour it was too bright and listening fatigue started to settle in. Back to the (forgot, Danny's cables) and settled back down for a listen.

What struck me most was 2 things. Balance. The music just flowed, nothing got in the way of simply what was there. Sorry, can't think of a better explanation. Certain nuances sounded just simply real. Often I think I've thought that something sounded real but now I feel like I'm into another level which I don't think I've ever heard before on any system. Folk, electronica, vocal, Latin, it all came across and simply drew us in.

A really great evening at the home front.

[SoCalWJS]

Thanks for the listening impressions!

There is something different with higher efficiency speakers (say 95+ db) - they seem to reproduce the transient attacks so effortlessly. The dynamics are more "impressive" for lack of a better word. It's one of the things that I like the most about Wilson speakers, and one of the things I liked the most about the V's at RMAF along with the depth of the soundstage (this all assumes that everything else is good - tone, balance, etc).

Makes me curious as to Danny's next "super" speaker will be like with updated drivers

[MichaelHiFi]

Thanks for the listening impressions!

There is something different with higher efficiency speakers (say 95+ db) - they seem to reproduce the transient attacks so effortlessly. The dynamics are more "impressive" for lack of a better word. It's one of the things that I like the most about Wilson speakers, and one of the things I liked the most about the V's at RMAF along with the depth of the soundstage (this all assumes that everything else is good - tone, balance, etc).

Makes me curious as to Danny's next "super" speaker will be like with updated drivers

What updated drivers? 

These are good enough 

Got my room at The SHOW. See you there.

[Danny Richie]

What updated drivers? 

I have some new 8" servo subs and 6.5" woofers that have been designed for open baffle applications that will be used in some new designs.

You can see some pics of them here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97188.msg973549#msg973549

And here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97188.msg1050682#msg1050682

[SoCalWJS]

What updated drivers? 

These are good enough 

Got my room at The SHOW. See you there.

Haven't booked my room yet - can't decide which hotel
See you there!

[SoCalWJS]

I have some new 8" servo subs and 6.5" woofers that have been designed for open baffle applications that will be used in some new designs.

You can see some pics of them here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97188.msg973549#msg973549

And here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97188.msg1050682#msg1050682

Danny,
Are you aiming at a performance level above the Super V?