New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?

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Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #60 on: 11 Feb 2012, 09:47 pm »
Okay, new 8 ohm and 16 ohm samples have arrived. I will be testing these shortly.

These have been over a year in development. Nothing on the market like these currently exists. These were designed to be used as mid-bass drivers in open baffle applications and can also be used in sealed or ported cabinets.

These new woofers have a push pull motor design that uses a Neodymium magnet on the pole piece and a ceramic magnet on the top plate. They have Copper shorting rings and an Aluminum phase plug. And phase plug, back plate, and top plate are all Copper anodized. The voice coil is a large 44mm. The cones are paper of coarse and play smoothly into the upper ranges with no break up or ringing. And non-resonant polymer frames of coarse. There is no better frame.











8 ohm version T/S parameters:

Fs - 51.7Hz
Re - 5.49
Qms - 11.07
Qes - .58
Qts - .55
L1 - .12 mH
L2 - .50 mH
Vas - 19.07 liters
Mms - 13.1 grams
Cms - .723 mm/N
Bl - 6.35
Spl - 88.4db

16 ohm version:

Fs - 57.0Hz
Re - 12.70
Qms - 8.96
Qes - .72
Qts - .67
L1 - .17 mH
L2 - .83 mH
Vas - 16.48 liters
Mms - 12.36 grams
Cms - .624 mm/N
Bl - 8.86
Spl - 88.2db

Cool things are coming....

LarryB

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #61 on: 13 Feb 2012, 04:09 pm »
Danny:

Quote
were designed to be used as mid-bass drivers in open baffle applications and can also be used in sealed or ported cabinets.


I was under the impression that a driver designed for OB use would optimally require certain parameters to be different from those for a driver intended for a sealed or ported cabinet.  Is that not correct, or did you compromise to make these "general-purpose" drivers?

Thanks.
Larry

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #62 on: 13 Feb 2012, 04:20 pm »
Danny:

I was under the impression that a driver designed for OB use would optimally require certain parameters to be different from those for a driver intended for a sealed or ported cabinet.  Is that not correct, or did you compromise to make these "general-purpose" drivers?

Thanks.
Larry

They were designed for open baffle applications. However there will still be an optimal sealed and ported box size as well, it will just be a little larger than the norm.

The 8 ohm version has a slightly low Qts at .55 so it works well as a mid-bass driver in open baffle. Then the optimal sealed box is .673 cubic feet where it is -3db down at 71Hz. And the optimal ported box is 1.29 cubic feet where it is -3db down at 34.5Hz.

The slightly higher Qts 16 ohm version is even better for open baffle applications and its optimal box volume for sealed and ported designs is even larger.

rajacat

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #63 on: 13 Feb 2012, 04:43 pm »
What's the diameter of these woofers?

LarryB

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #64 on: 13 Feb 2012, 04:45 pm »
Thanks Danny.

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #65 on: 13 Feb 2012, 05:07 pm »
What's the diameter of these woofers?

These are 6.5" woofers.

Hank

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #66 on: 13 Feb 2012, 06:38 pm »
Xmax?

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #67 on: 13 Feb 2012, 07:31 pm »
Xmax?

Typically the X-Max is measured by the height of the gap and length of the voice coil. By those numbers it has 7.2mm of X-max. This is limited though by the surround and spider to around 4mm. So through its entire range of motion the same amount of voice coil (due to its length) is kept in the gap. So the BL curve will be more linear and consistent throughout its range of movement than most woofers.

aron944

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #68 on: 13 Feb 2012, 11:03 pm »
 :scratch: Can you expand on the benefit of limiting excursion by mechanical means?  I understand that it forces the woofer to remain linear, but what is the disadvantage to allowing the motion to exceed linear motion during dynamic passages as opposed to hard limiting mechanically?  Does it allow you to run a stiffer suspension providing greater control over the cone motion? I might just be confusing myself at this point. . . Super excited to see the end result of all your work btw!

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #69 on: 14 Feb 2012, 12:20 am »
:scratch: Can you expand on the benefit of limiting excursion by mechanical means?  I understand that it forces the woofer to remain linear, but what is the disadvantage to allowing the motion to exceed linear motion during dynamic passages as opposed to hard limiting mechanically?  Does it allow you to run a stiffer suspension providing greater control over the cone motion? I might just be confusing myself at this point. . . Super excited to see the end result of all your work btw!

First consider the application and how much movement is needed.

In this case if the woofer is playing in free air then it might not be required to play down real low anyway. Other woofers will be handling from 150Hz or so and down. So long exertions are not needed.

If it were playing more full range like in a ported box then X-max might be more of a consideration. It all depends on how hard it will be played and to what frequency range.

All woofers have a mechanical limit. Some hit the limit when the voice coil former hits the back plate. In this case these woofers have a bumped back plate to keep that from ever happening. If the voice coil former does not hit the back plate then the woofer will be limited by the surround and spider. This is true for all woofers.

Lets say that a woofer has a 4mm thick top plate and a 10mm voice coil length. That leaves 3mm of voice coil extending above and below the top plate. So for the first 3mm of travel each way the same amount of voice coil is within the gap. However, even as the woofer movement approaches the 3mm range the field strength on the voice coil is already dropping off because the field range extends some beyond the gap. After the first 3mm of movement then the field strength is less as there is less voice coil length within the gap and the control is less. So it is not linear over all of its range if the surround and spider support movements that long.

In this case (with this new woofer) there is a 5mm thick top plate and the voice coil is 19.4mm long. So minus the top plate is 14.4mm or 7.2mm of voice coil each way past the gap. So even as the woofer reaches it's mechanical limit it still has maintained the same field strength over the voice coil.

Here are those same numbers listed on another woofer: http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=68&Itemid=92

16mm voice coil length, 6mm top plate thickness, linear travel 10mm or 5mm each way... Even though the surround may not allow 5mm each way.

Ric Schultz

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #70 on: 14 Feb 2012, 02:47 am »
Danny,
Would love to see the FR response of each driver on and off axis when you do your measurements.  These things look awesome. 
Have a quess as to price and availablity?

cujobob

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #71 on: 14 Feb 2012, 03:23 am »
Any new tweeters to pair these with?

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #72 on: 15 Feb 2012, 10:34 pm »
Danny,
Would love to see the FR response of each driver on and off axis when you do your measurements.  These things look awesome. 
Have a quess as to price and availablity?

Manufacturers plots were scanned images that were sent to me, and are parts of .pdf files. So it is not easy to post. My measured responses were in boxes and show baffle step loss, so those are representative of the drivers themselves.

I will get some infinite baffle anechoic responses for posting.

I am still working on final pricing.

Any new tweeters to pair these with?

Oh yeah baby!

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #73 on: 16 Feb 2012, 06:22 pm »
Hey guys,

A lot of things going into these new drivers make them a lot more expensive to make. Solid phase plugs, Copper skirts, Copper rings. Copper anodizing, Neodymium magnets, etc really adds up. But I intend for this to be one of the best woofers out there regardless of price. I will be having a lot of them made per run to keep the cost low and I will be passing this on to my customers. They will be less expensive than any comparable woofer.

Syrah

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #74 on: 16 Feb 2012, 07:52 pm »
Any chance these will be a drop in replacement for LS9 woofers? 

I have LS9 flat packs in my attic that I've been meaning to build for some time.  I fear that, by the time I get around to it, you will have bigger and better toys to play with.

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #75 on: 16 Feb 2012, 08:00 pm »
Any chance these will be a drop in replacement for LS9 woofers? 

I have LS9 flat packs in my attic that I've been meaning to build for some time.  I fear that, by the time I get around to it, you will have bigger and better toys to play with.

Nope, the parameters are all wrong for that application. The frames are different too.

The woofers in the LS-6 and LS-9 were purpose build just for that application. No other better woofers are available.

S Clark

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #76 on: 16 Feb 2012, 08:03 pm »
Any chance these will be a drop in replacement for LS9 woofers? 

I have LS9 flat packs in my attic that I've been meaning to build for some time.  I fear that, by the time I get around to it, you will have bigger and better toys to play with.
Probably not bigger  :lol:

LarryB

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #77 on: 16 Feb 2012, 08:09 pm »
Danny:

Can you tell us more about the speakers in which these drivers will be used?

Thanks...

Larry

Danny Richie

Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #78 on: 16 Feb 2012, 08:27 pm »
Danny:

Can you tell us more about the speakers in which these drivers will be used?

Thanks...

Larry

I have three fairly serious kits in mind for these new woofers.

I have the X-Pro "mini floor standing model" that will use a single 8 ohm woofer and wave guide tweeter. Just a little something to go head to head with and defeat speakers like the YG Carmel, or Merlin VSM, or any other top level small two way monitors or floor standing speakers.

I have X-Optima that will use the 8 ohm woofer, wave guide tweeter, and maybe some passive larger woofers all in open baffle. I have some good things in mind to try but it is not set in stone yet. Think low cost by high performing small floor standing design. I am shooting for an all passive design for this one.

Then there is X-Otica. It will use a pair of the 16 ohm woofers in an MTM with a wave guide tweeter and three of the SW-8-16FR woofers below, all in open baffle. Yes, that is three 8" servo controlled open baffle subs in the bottom end. That one should get real interesting.

How's that?

jtwrace

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Re: New Drivers, Danny anything cooking?
« Reply #79 on: 16 Feb 2012, 08:30 pm »
How's that?
I'd get rid of the AV123 type names...