[S Clark]

I'm looking for something to match up with a 13g Denon mono cartridge and have my eye on three options- a Fairchild 412, a Rekokut Rondine Jr, and a Russco CueMaster.  Do any of you know these by experience or reputation?

[S Clark]

Is anyone at AC using an idler TT?

[orthobiz]

Is anyone at AC using an idler TT?

My daughter loves her Dual 1216. And of course Davey has a Dual as well, although I think he's been spinning his Linn with a new cartridge of late.

I am not familiar with the TT's you've listed...

Paul

[S Clark]

These are mostly old pro broadcast tt from the 50's and 60's.  They are built like a tank, often with 16" platters to play transcription disc.  I was hoping to pick one up for around $250, but it looks like it's going to take a bit more. 
I think these are QRK turntables with Rek-O-Kut tonearms. You may recognize the studio.

[Scott F.]

I almost forgot, fellow babies: BOOGER!!!!!




(...i guess you had to see the episode)

[BaMorin]

I almost forgot, fellow babies: BOOGER!!!!!




(...i guess you had to see the episode)

That's the episode where the state trooper tries as he might to prove that drinking slows your response time. Johnny just kept getting faster the more shots he shoved down. The Trooper and Venus get pretty wasted as well.........Venus says "the cops got a hat, I need a hat" and steals Carlson's long bill'd fishing hat.

[S Clark]

It looks like there are more WKRP  fans at AC than there are pro turntable fans (and it WAS a funny show).  Has anyone had any experience with or know anything about these old idler tables? 

[Wayner]

I don't understand why you would want one, other then the long tonearm, which is an advantage. There may be numerous problems with these very aged tables, of which one is they have probably had the heck played out of them. I'm certainly not quibbling about their quality or performance, but more concerned for you, if you should acquire one, and it has problems, that parts can be found.

The motors on these beast probably are good for another 100 years, but there are thrust bearings to consider, and the idler wheel itself. Where do you get replacement parts, especially the wheel.

I'd probably piss my pants if I had a shot at one, but then the reality of repair comes into focus. Hate to be the bummer in the thread, just trying to keep it real.

Of course, these tables met NAB specs for broadcasting, coming to full speed in 1/3 of a revolution, with specs that also meet wow and flutter requirements.....

Wayner 

[S Clark]

I don't understand why you would want one, other then the long tonearm, which is an advantage. There may be numerous problems with these very aged tables, of which one is they have probably had the heck played out of them. I'm certainly not quibbling about their quality or performance, but more concerned for you, if you should acquire one, and it has problems, that parts can be found.

The motors on these beast probably are good for another 100 years, but there are thrust bearings to consider, and the idler wheel itself. Where do you get replacement parts, especially the wheel.

I'd probably piss my pants if I had a shot at one, but then the reality of repair comes into focus. Hate to be the bummer in the thread, just trying to keep it real.

Of course, these tables met NAB specs for broadcasting, coming to full speed in 1/3 of a revolution, with specs that also meet wow and flutter requirements.....

Wayner 

Thanks for the reply, Wayner.  Interestingly enough, most of the parts you have mentioned are available - idlers at about $35, rubber mounting grommets, even motors are out there.  I think that I can get one going and keep it running, the question is whether or not it's worth it.  The reason I started this thread was to see if I was about to throw money at a project that would, at best, yield a rumbly sound.
So you're not really raining on the parade, as I want feedback on the idea- positive and negative.

[doug s.]

i have never had first hand experience, but from those who have, everyone says they are kick a$$ 'tables.  they frequently show up on ebay, and generally fetch a few dollars:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110854990842


http://www.ebay.com/itm/220993552913


i dunno if there's others, but these folks will rebuild practically any idler wheel you may have:
http://www.turntablebasics.com/idlerwheels.html

and, while bearings should be fine if not abused, there are quite a few folks who rebuild and upgrade these as well...

lenco's also have a strong following.  re: the idler wheel duals, i bought a 1219 new back in 1969; if i knew any better, i'd have immediately returned it; it never spun accurately, which was easy to see on its built-in strobe - wow was horrible, and you could hear it as well as see it.  (i shoulda listened to my step-brother and got an empire 598, like his...)  and within two years, the 1219's complicated auto-return mechanism needed constant tweaking to keep operating properly.  one of my fonder audiophile moments was happily hurling it into a dumpster 15 years later, when i finally got a nice c&j walker cj55.

doug s.

[S Clark]

Yep, those are two of the ones on my "watch list".  I think both of those are going to go for around $400+........... just a bit more than I want to spend on an experiment.

[S Clark]

Well, I got my project table- a Collins model 12 S.  Although I kinda wanted one of the 16" transcriptions, the price of this one was right.. free.
This one is almost identical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZfUr7LJeo

I wish mine had that particular tonearm.  The last two of those that sold on ebay went for $1300 and $1600.

The cast Al frame, massive platter, huge motor, and platter bearings are of another time when thing were made to be repaired and last for decades of hard use. 

All this table needs is to clean up the capstan, re-lub the motor, and put in a new idler pulley (the old one is ok, but a new one is available for reasonable $)  The tonearm is a Gray Research Micro-Trak with a Stanton 500 cartridge.
I'm eager to see how quiet I can get this old beast.

[SteveRB]

Just picked up a Gerrard Lab 80 at a thrift store for $40. It'll be my summer project.

I really enjoy the sound of the idle wheel tables: it is a very immediate sound with great bass definition.

review:
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Tables.html#Idler

[S Clark]

Just picked up a Gerrard Lab 80 at a thrift store for $40. It'll be my summer project.

I really enjoy the sound of the idle wheel tables: it is a very immediate sound with great bass definition.

review:
http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Tables.html#Idler

It'll be interesting to see what you can do with that Garrard.  Most things I've read say that the Lab 80 was the last of the solidly made units that they made for home use.  I'd be tempted to put it in a heavy plinth and see if detail improves. 

[SteveRB]

It'll be interesting to see what you can do with that Garrard.  Most things I've read say that the Lab 80 was the last of the solidly made units that they made for home use.  I'd be tempted to put it in a heavy plinth and see if detail improves.

That's the plan.

Not expecting a super deck like the 401's. But I've seen several rebuilds of the Lab 80 that report great results.

[jerryleefish]

I had the Rek O Kut Rondine Jr. It was was a leap over what I was using. Then the Empire Trubador came out and was a big sucess because it started the drive belt craze.
This caused problems for Rek O Kut because they used a rim drive ie a rubber idler pressed against the plater wall. Being up staged R O K then started making belt drives before going out of business. I presently have a Fairchild and find it useful but not a great choice. It is belt driven but noisy. The deck is separated from the base by rubber bushings. It thus has suspension but too stiff to be of much use. I don't know which model it is so their could be better Fairchilds out there. Fairchild was an up scale brand in its day. A better choice than Rek O Kut.

[S Clark]

I was following a Fairchild on ebay several weeks back, a thing of beauty, but it sold for more than I was willing to pay for TT that might never be more than just decent.  I picked up a Collins (QRK) for free, and am rebuilding it.  I have all new rubber ordered, having a new capstan made, and have ceramic ball bearing on the way from China. All told, I'll have just under $100 in it.  After building a heavy plinth it should be as quiet as a rim drive design can possibly be.  I'll post the rebuild pics in a separate thread.

[quietglow]

Did you ever end up getting an idler TT? I have been wondering (as you were) if anyone else hanging out in the vinyl circle uses one as their main rig. I am about 6 weeks along with my Rek-o-Kut B-12H and seriously loving it.

[S Clark]

I found a Collins 12s.  In spite of replacing the idler, new platter bearing, having a spindle made, and cleaning and oiling the motor, I could never get the amount of rumble to be acceptable.  My Collins now sits in a shed in the back yard. One day I'll replace the start capacitor, and polish the spindle, and see if I can get it a bit quieter.

[S Clark]

Here is a thread about the Collins.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106532.msg1090845#msg1090845