[roscoeiii]

Roscoeiii:

Bottlehead offers DIY kits for either 2A3's or 300B's that are very reasonably priced. I already have a Bottlehead Foreplay preamp that would work nicely.

Jim

Oh yeah, Bottleheads have a great reputation. I have only heard their headphone amps, but really liked what I heard there. Just thought I'd pass along my praise of the very affordable MiniWatts, with which I do have experience.

And I agree, wouldn't worry about clipping with 98dB speakers with either the Bottleheads or MiniWatt amps. Not an issue.

[Rclark]

I gotta leave but I want to read those responses and respond. Please don't get upset Roscoeii, I'm sure you're quite right. Peace.

[roscoeiii]

Nelson Pass is a true genius of the first order....I have to think that Doc of Bottlehead is also no slouch and has a growing Bottlehead following...

Jim

No argument there either. I've heard John Ver Halen of Lowther USA praise Doc very highly. And what amps does John Ver Halen sell? Nelson Pass's FirstWatt.

[roscoeiii]

I gotta leave but I want to read those responses and respond. Please don't get upset Roscoeiii, I'm sure you're quite right. Peace.

And don't take me the wrong way RClark. I don't mean any sort of malicious attack by what I am saying here (I have stated many times that part of what keeps me coming back to AC is the civility here). I want all of what I have said here to be read as helpful feedback. Audio forums at their best are made up of users and manufacturers helping each other out in their audio journeys.

On that note, I am going to bed. Happy audio travels everyone!

[morganc]

RClark,

I would strongly recommend not writing off Nelson Pass. Have you looked closely at some of his designs and products over just the past 10 years? The man had a transistor designed just for his company (featured first in his SIT amp). "Contributed what he will"? C'mon, get real. We haven't even seen a high power implementation of his SIT transistor. I will be lining up to hear that one.

As others in multiple threads have mentioned, you are wading into dicey territory with a lot of your statements about amps and designers that as best I can tell you have not heard. Speaking in this way without direct experience is really doing some damage to your credibility. And I know I am not the only one who has said things like this about your posts.

Could I see ncores as amps that I will have for a looong loong time? Yes. But I will definitely ALWAYS follow what Nelson Pass is doing in his amp designs. His nickname is "Papa" for a reason.

In audio, there is no one-size-fits-all amplifier due to both differences in speakers and differences in listeners' preferences. Differences in amp and speaker characteristics is what leads to many folks putting together second systems that look very different from their main systems. That's why I have Hornshoppes & a MiniWatt N3 in my second (bedroom) system and SP Tech Minis and a beefy Butler 2250 in my main (living room) system.

Sorry if this is getting OT in a Lore thread, but I felt that this needed to be said. A lot of the things I have written in the past few posts on this thread encapsulate things I wished I'd known about when I was starting out in this hobby.

I'm strongly considering a Pass Labs Amp for my system at the moment.  I had an XA 30.5 last year with my Zu's and I wish I had it now with the Dragons though I am sure my neighbors prefer the 2 watt Don Allen 45! 

I will give more detail and a review after I have the new Mundorf SIO caps installed on the new crossover board and after I make some much needed bass traps for my room. 

I can say now that the imaging, soundstage, tone, and timbre is fantastic.  Bass nodes in my room are the only limiting factor to an amazing listening experience so far.

[morganc]

And if anyone could help me decide which First Watt/Pass labs amp would be a good combo for my Pendragons and my Dodd Pre I would love the advice.  I've read so much on the subject but am not an EE! 

[roscoeiii]

Morganc,

As I suggested or alluded to above in some of my posts, I'd look at a low damping factor amp from the FirstWatt line. I don't think you need anything more than a FirstWatt with the Pendragons. As I moved through the FirstWatt line, I found that the 6moons reviews were immensely helpful, as Srajan has heard and compares everything in the line. I'd start there. You might also want to give Mark at Reno HiFi a call. He has a great return policy and knows these amps well.

If you can swing it financially, go SIT! But that is a very pricey one.

FWIW, with my single driver speakers I preferred the F3 and F2J. Not sure that the F1 or F2 would necessarily work with the speakers you have. If they do, damn are they great amps. And since they are current source amps (see the FirstWatt lit and 6moons on this), you can actually add little resistor networks at the speaker to adjust the damping factor.

ALSO: I have heard both Pass built and Rawson clone FirstWatts. Do not let anyone tell you that they are equivalent. Pass-built FirstWatt's killed the Rawson clones, not to mention the criticism that Rawson has received from Pass and others for profitting from designs intended for the DIY community rather than any commercial profit-making entity.

[fredgarvin]

As much as we all like playing with and debating about our amps and dacs, it is the loudspeaker that makes or breaks the system. It produces the most distortion and color, proper matching of components to a loudspeakers characteristics is the most important thing.

[roscoeiii]

+1

I am always a bit amazed by people who start with an amp and then try to find a loudspeaker to match it. Logic seems backwards to me.

As much as we all like playing with and debating about our amps and dacs, it is the loudspeaker that makes or breaks the system. It produces the most distortion and color, proper matching of components to a loudspeakers characteristics is the most important thing.

[doug s.]

As much as we all like playing with and debating about our amps and dacs, it is the loudspeaker that makes or breaks the system. It produces the most distortion and color, proper matching of components to a loudspeakers characteristics is the most important thing.

i agree; i don't seem to have this problem.  i have been using the same dac for >10 years, and have no interest in changing.  same turntable, a couple years longer.  same w/the preamp.  (don't ask me about tuners!    )  w/speakers, which are fun to change, cuz there's so many different types, and they have such different presentations, i am only interested in finding an amp that matches the speaker well...

doug s.

[fredgarvin]

i agree; i don't seem to have this problem.  i have been using the same dac for >10 years, and have no interest in changing.  same turntable, a couple years longer.  same w/the preamp.  (don't ask me about tuners!    )  w/speakers, which are fun to change, cuz there's so many different types, and they have such different presentations, i am only interested in finding an amp that matches the speaker well...

doug s.

I used to have the Art/dio too, but with a different power supply than the Bolder. I eventually went back to the stock Marantz, only because the soundstage is a little wider with my VMPS 626r's. That was a good DAC, it had a certain clarity and depth in midrange notes, I remember.

[JLM]

As much as we all like playing with and debating about our amps and dacs, it is the loudspeaker that makes or breaks the system. It produces the most distortion and color, proper matching of components to a loudspeakers characteristics is the most important thing.

+2

[Russell Dawkins]

As much as we all like playing with and debating about our amps and dacs, it is the loudspeaker that makes or breaks the system. It produces the most distortion and color, proper matching of components to a loudspeakers characteristics is the most important thing.

+3    It's very important to keep this perspective.

[medium jim]

Your system is only as good as the weakest link, but with the caveat the speakers should never be the weakest link.

Jim

[Rclark]

Just finished Michael Mardis article about gainstaging. Very interesting. That said, once gain is given proper attention, the ncores should work. There is a guy here with Pendragons who will be trying the ncore in a few weeks. Guess we'll find out how it goes.