[audiotom]

I have a pair of Salks being crafted in Jim's caring and creative hands.

I am curious what your experiences have been with break in time on speakers

I am currently breaking in some amps and the variation and convergence in sound is not subtle

Having heard a pair of Soundscapes at RMAF, I was astounded with how phenomenal they sounded with little break in time.

Since everyone seems overwhelmed right out of the box
Perhaps there is minimal breakin needed

Curious to hear your comments and break in methods

[DMurphy]

There is really nothing in a loudspeaker that needs breaking in other than the woofer surrounds and spider.  The research I've seen indicates that complete flexing of those elements will take perhaps a minute of serious playback.  And that's an upper limit.  Don't worry about break in.  Worry about how you're going to pay for these things. 

[Nuance]

The audibility of break in concerning audio components is a highly debatable topic, so it's best to simply listen to the speakers straight out of the box.  If you hear them break in - cool.  If not - cool.  Either way, the SoundScapes sound phenomenal!

[jtwrace]

Worry about how you're going to pay for these things.

For some it's more of a worry about break-in though.   

[audiotom]

so like aerating wine

you will be enjoying a fresh bouquet of sounds
thrilling to the palate

nearly straight from the bottle to the glass


thanks for the insight Dennis and Nuance


no worries here jtw, just curious

[Paul K.]

Ahhh, I love it when someone speaks with logic, common sense and practicality!
Paul

There is really nothing in a loudspeaker that needs breaking in other than the woofer surrounds and spider.  The research I've seen indicates that complete flexing of those elements will take perhaps a minute of serious playback.  And that's an upper limit.  Don't worry about break in.  Worry about how you're going to pay for these things.

[Big Red Machine]

By the time you yell, "honey, you've gotta come hear this!", they'll be broken in!!

[won ton on]

as good as my ht2-tl's sounded right out of the box after 4 months they really sounded good. mind you it could have been my cables and interconnects that i got a few months before

[grantc79]

as good as my ht2-tl's sounded right out of the box after 4 months they really sounded good. mind you it could have been my cables and interconnects that i got a few months before

Would be feasible if cables and interconnects were actually proven to improve sound 

[jtwrace]

There is really nothing in a loudspeaker that needs breaking in other than the woofer surrounds and spider.  The research I've seen indicates that complete flexing of those elements will take perhaps a minute of serious playback.  And that's an upper limit.  Don't worry about break in.  Worry about how you're going to pay for these things.

So what do you think this all means then?


http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

[Paul K.]

If you look at the data table in the first link, you'll see that in most all cases, virtually all of the changes in parameters occurred in the first 5 minutes of burn-in, with some additional changes in the first hour, and very small changes between 1 hour and 80 hours.  Even comparing "fresh out of the box" measurements to those after 80 hours, most of the changes in the three measured parameters were on the order of 2-6%.  That is not a significant change and is no more than, and generally lower than the tolerances on the capacitors likely used in a crossover.
Paul

So what do you think this all means then?


http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

[audiotom]

looks like it could take longer to discuss break in measurements

then the actual speaker break in 

[Big Red Machine]

You couldn't tell anyone was having any issues listening to a brand-spanking new pair of SS12's when the crew fired them up for the very first time at the recent SMAC GTG.  Wowser baby.  I'll take those unbroken-in speakers any day of the week!

[Saturn94]

If you look at the data table in the first link, you'll see that in most all cases, virtually all of the changes in parameters occurred in the first 5 minutes of burn-in, with some additional changes in the first hour, and very small changes between 1 hour and 80 hours.  Even comparing "fresh out of the box" measurements to those after 80 hours, most of the changes in the three measured parameters were on the order of 2-6%.  That is not a significant change and is no more than, and generally lower than the tolerances on the capacitors likely used in a crossover.
Paul

+1

I had read those links before and thought of them when I read this thread.  However, I don't remember reading anything that would suggest the changes made would be clearly audible.  I believe most of what's going on with improvements with speaker break in is our brains adapting to the sound of the speakers over time.

[audiotom]

I certainly felt the listener effects of room treatments
took me about a week

at first I thought - where are the dynamics?
then I realized I was previously hearing too much reverberated energy in the room

given time to adjust
a  slight increase in the volume knob
and the clarity, imaging, and dynamics that were enhanced
finally became fully resolved to the ear

[Nuance]

I certainly felt the listener effects of room treatments
took me about a week

at first I thought - where are the dynamics?
then I realized I was previously hearing too much reverberated energy in the room

given time to adjust
a  slight increase in the volume knob
and the clarity, imaging, and dynamics that were enhanced
finally became fully resolved to the ear

Well, that's different, as the changes are actual audible and the measured changes are likely very noticeable.   Room treatments vastly improved my decay times too.

Well, it looks like the can of worms has been opened; hopefully not for too long, though.

[audiotom]

room treatment changes are audible - no doubt

it's realising what they are enhancing or removing

I noticed a difference right away
but I had to mentally realize
that what I enjoyed hearing before was actually secondary effects of the room on the music 

remove the room effects and clarity and refinement occur

your ears have a few day adjustment period to catch up
I don't miss the room

[Danny Richie]

I can't believe this is still being discussed.

Break in effects are well documented.

And the first 5 minutes of play won't even get you close. Most woofers need a good 80 to 100 hours or so to reach a near settled range. The links posted above clearly show this.

I have also looked at the measured responses and spectral decays over a long burn in period and noted that the spectral decay becomes much cleaner as the woofer loosens up. It's easy to see on the graphs. So basically you have less stored energy and a much cleaner sound.

And the effects are very audible.

There is also an electrical burn in effect to the woofers as well. It is harder to document though.

Capacitors take just as long to settle as well. Most poly caps will take a good 100 hours or so and any Teflon based caps can take a good 500 hours or more to settle in. Sometimes the change during that time can be quite surprising.

I have also built identical sets of speakers that measured the same and sounded the same. But after playing one pair for a couple of weeks it no longer sounded like the other pair in a side by side comparison. The burned in pair had a much more relaxed and coherent sound. Bass response was smoother and deeper without question. The mid-range was more fluid as well. Highs were cleaner too. There was really no comparison. The fresh pair sounded strained and even a little harsh by comparison. Then after a few weeks of burning in the other pair, they sounded exactly the same again.

Even the wire goes through a noticeable burn in period that changes the sound.

[Chuck_M]

Danny Richie +1

I would like to share an experience I had about ten? years ago.  I live in Indianapolis, where Klaus Bunge of Odyssey Audio lives.  I did not believe that break-in was real.  I had read many conflicting articles on the subject.  I read a very compelling, coherent argument that break-in was partly psychological, and partly getting used to the new speakers.  It made a lot of sense to me and I tended to believe it.  It sure made this hobby a lot simpler.  Then...

I bought an amp from Odyssey and when Klaus delivered it (personally - and set it up - great service!!) he brought a pair of the (now no longer made) Nightingales.  They had 100 or so hours on them.  They were the prototype before Odyssey began selling them.

After Klaus left I dropped in Dire Straights, Brothers in Arms.  I immediately fell in love with these speakers.  I never heard anything near that price range that had such holographic three-dimensional imaging.  The bass was as tight and fast as I had heard til then.

I called Klaus and told him he wasn't getting the speakers back...but offered my credit card number instead.  Since they were a prototype and the only pair he had, he needed them back for an upcoming show in New York.  So he ordered me a new pair and let me keep the prototypes until the show.  Then he swapped them out.

A mistake was made and the new pair was the wrong finish.  Klaus told me to keep them until he got the right ones in.  He told me he wouldn't charge me until then.

The new pair, right out of the box, was unlistenable.  Nothing but shrill screeching treble.  No audible mids.  And an annoying  port chuffing noise that was supposed to be bass, I guess.

I would have thought that Klaus was trying to cheat me by swapping a special tricked-out demo model for a cheaper look-alike.  Except he hadn't charged me anything.

I wired one speaker out-of-phase, faced them together, threw a heavy blanket over them, and ran them continually day and night.  Every few days I tested them with music I was very familiar with.

After about two weeks, something dramatically audible started to happen.  The mids started coming in.  The bass started tightening, and the treble was becoming smoother and articulate.

After about a month, I was getting a huge three dimensional soundstage again, fast articulate bass, and started enjoying listening to them.

I had that set for about six months when Klaus brought over the black ash Nightingales I wanted.

Same exact experience again.  Hooked them up immediately.  Screeeeeech!!!!  Chuff!  Chuff!  Screech!  Yikes!  Cover your ears!

Wired them out-of-phase and started all over.

Now, unfortunately, I am a reluctant believer.

Please feel free to either mock or share your similar (or dissimilar) experiences.  I still would not believe if not for the Dr. Jekyl /Mr. Hyde act I heard on three sets of the same speaker.                     

[Nuance]

And here we go...