[cloudbaseracer]

I am looking to construct some speaker cables from a recipe that I was given by a fellow Audio Circle member.  It uses 4 individual wires that are then twisted together. The thing is that I need to make one run (to a sub) that is really long - 100' or so.  The other runs will be between 15' -25'.

Do you guys know the best way to achieve the braid/twist that I need over such a long distance? I know that a short 3' piece would not be that big of a deal but these larger runs can be troublesome for sure. 

Thanks,

James

[Davey]

Stretch out all four wires and clamp them in a vice at one end.  Head to the other end chuck all four wires in your electric drill and then go to it. (Make sure you comb them beforehand or you'll have an odd twist somewhere.)
When you stop "drilling" and before you turn loose of the wires in the chuck give the whole thing a hard jerk.  This tends to "set" the wires in the twist.  Remove from vice and drill and clip off the portions that were squeezed hard.

If you want to braid.....it's going to be a much more tedious process. 

Cheers,

Dave.

[Big Red Machine]

This is not as easy as it sounds.  A 2 to 3 person job for long runs and twist very slowly.  You will inevitably end up with uneven twists which can really muck things up.  For 12 feet or less I usually twist by hand with one end clamped in a vise.

[galyons]

  It uses 4 individual wires that are then twisted together. The thing is that I need to make one run (to a sub) that is really long - 100' or so.  The other runs will be between 15' -25'.

That is a lot of wire.  Better pay close attention to the calculation of capacitance and resistance.
Cheers,
Geary

[Speedskater]

If you are in the US or Canada, just get a roll of Romex® (NM), size 14AWd by 3 conductor plus ground.  Hook the Black & Red wires together, then the White & bare together.  This equivalent to a 11AWG wire, it's pre-twisted and it's budget priced.  The bad part is, it's ugly and very stiff.

For others that use zip cord,  twisting is good with speaker cables so add some twists when you run your cables.

[Bob in St. Louis]

These are available in 100' lengths.... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html

I used them in my system. Love 'em.

Bob

[nathanm]

I think I did at most 25 feet back in my wire-twisting days using the vice\drill combo.  Make sure the drill has variable speed.  Start out slow.   

If you do somehow manage to hit your head against a door and think that braiding 100 feet of wire seems like a good idea please shoot a time lapse video of you doing it so we can all enjoy the morbid curiosity of watching a human being lose his will to live before our very eyes! You'll have to get someone else to upload the video though, since your fingers will be twisted into arthritic claws. 

[*Scotty*]

James, you might want to think about buying some architectural wire from Parts Express
There is free shipping on these two 250ft. reels of 12/2 wire.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=101-203
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=100-776
I have twisted 22ft. sets of speaker wires and I can tell you that twisting up 100 ft of speaker wire in a star-quad geometry is not going to happen.
Scotty

[HT cOz]

Hahaha Nathan that is a good one. The longest braided cable run that I have created was 25 feet and it was not easy. Anything taller than you gets hard.

The thing to keep in mind is that for every twist you create you must untwist it at the other end. Almost impossible with 100 feet.

If you are hell bent on this idea the buy a 2x4 and space nails at a staggered 2 narrow 2 wide pattern, use this as a jig to do a number of feet at a time. That is still a lot of work but doable.

Kind Regards,
Robert

[cloudbaseracer]

Bob,

I use these currently but only in the white and only have only seen them at 40'. Can you show me where you can get this at 100'?  AND in black?  They black will be key for hiding the wires.

Guys,

I should not have written the word braid as I know that is an almost impossibility at this length.  I am really just trying to find a nice way to keep these strands together - you know something that looks good.

I am lazy, so the braiding would never work for me!! 

These are available in 100' lengths.... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html

I used them in my system. Love 'em.

Bob

[jtwrace]

I am really just trying to find a nice way to keep these strands together - you know something that looks good.

http://techflex.com/prod_PET.asp

[Æ]

These are available in 100' lengths.... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html

I used them in my system. Love 'em.

Bob

Might indeed sound good, but it (Chinese made) is actually a POS. Really lousy for an extension cord, that is if you use it as intended.

[randytsuch]

I would get 4 pieces of PVC pipe, 1/2" dia would be fine, and tie them together, in a "square" shape.  Length of pipe is not really important, a few feet long should work.

This is easier with two people, but I have done it be myself.
Run one wire through each pipe, I used two different color wires, and alternate colors in the pipes.  Have one person hold the wire right as it exits the pipe.  The other person twists the pipe, which will twist the wires around and around.  This works better if you put a smaller gauge wire in the middle, so the wires will twist around the smaller wire.  You can just run the smaller wire in the middle of the pipes.

You can make the wire as long as you want (or as long as you and your friend last, your arms will probably hurt after 100 feet).

Randy

[Bob in St. Louis]

Bob,

I use these currently but only in the white and only have only seen them at 40'. Can you show me where you can get this at 100'?  AND in black?  They black will be key for hiding the wires.

Right after Six Moon came out with this, and the "big rave and reviews" was going on, I bought several of the 40' lengths for my several channels of full active system. At the time, they had white, tan, and dark green in three different lengths. I can't recall now, but I think they were something like a short 20'(?) the popular 40' and something very long. If memory serves, it was the typical 100' extension cord distance. But they never had black that I've ever saw.

But as was mentioned above, some black techflex would help the color issue. A decent cable with a good appearance, and very little work and cost. An equation that's hard to beat.

Bob

[James Romeyn]

Stretch out all four wires and clamp them in a vice at one end.  Head to the other end chuck all four wires in your electric drill and then go to it. (Make sure you comb them beforehand or you'll have an odd twist somewhere.)
When you stop "drilling" and before you turn loose of the wires in the chuck give the whole thing a hard jerk.  This tends to "set" the wires in the twist.  Remove from vice and drill and clip off the portions that were squeezed hard.

If you want to braid.....it's going to be a much more tedious process. 

Cheers,

Dave.

The drill chuck turns, the wires twist one over the other.  The problem is each individual wire twists as the chuck turns.   

Within a surprisingly quick number of turns the torque stored in the four twisted wires results in one or both of the following (the thicker the AWG the quicker the torque increases):

Absence of hand/finger/wrist strength to continue holding the drill and twisting the cable

Absence of drill torque required to turn the cables 

As the euphemism goes, been there/done that.

Even if one was somehow able to find the hand and drill strength to turn 100' (impossible), and then strong enough tape to bind the wires at the vice end before removing from the vice, the combined torque in the wires would equal a pipe and never be bent or turned to any shape except straight. 

Have you tried what you describe?  If yes, and it worked, I am surely missing something, but I doubt it.   

[TQdB]

James, Hey ...

The point (besides 'stylin') of using higher-than-two twists -or braids- of smaller wire is to avoid skin effect with the higher frequencies within the smaller individual conductors (but still add up to a high total current capacity) ... a design which you won't need in a subwoofer run ... no high frequencies.

- So then the job on the 100' run is going to be way easier.

To get the capacity right, and still get some emf rejection, just use a two-twist of 10 to 12 gauge. 10 to do it great, 12 to probably be ok. -- Check the googlage here Re your actual ohms http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

You can use multiple pieces of shrink tubing on the project ... just stop every 10 inches or so to shrink up what's already been twisted, then twist up some more and repeat etc. Once the wires and their insulation start to 'take the set' they'll almost stay twisted on their own, (well, sortof), you won't need wall-to-wall shrink ... plus the final result will be more pliable.

Consider doing a test run of just a few feet to get a methodology down before hitting the whole run.

Also, Techflex will cover up for a multitude of aesthetic sins, and look good doing it, but that much of it could be pricey.

[Chromisdesigns]

The drill chuck turns, the wires twist one over the other.  The problem is each individual wire twists as the chuck turns.   

Within a surprisingly quick number of turns the torque stored in the four twisted wires results in one or both of the following (the thicker the AWG the quicker the torque increases):

Absence of hand/finger/wrist strength to continue holding the drill and twisting the cable

Absence of drill torque required to turn the cables 

As the euphemism goes, been there/done that.

Even if one was somehow able to find the hand and drill strength to turn 100' (impossible), and then strong enough tape to bind the wires at the vice end before removing from the vice, the combined torque in the wires would equal a pipe and never be bent or turned to any shape except straight. 

Have you tried what you describe?  If yes, and it worked, I am surely missing something, but I doubt it.

People have been hand-laying rope and wire cables for hundreds of years (wire) and thousands of years (rope).  The secret to cable-making is each successive set of strands is twisted in the OPPOSITE direction from the preceding set.

So if you are laying-up a cable from right-hand twisted stranded wire, you need to lay-up (twist) the cable in the left-hand direction.  Done properly, not only does the twist not build up, it has the effect of making the individual cable strands lay more parallel to each other, and thus makes a stronger cable, and one that will not want to un-lay itself.

Strength isn't that important in speaker cables, obviously, but the correct way to make cable was developed by sailors to whom strength was VERY important.

[Æ]

There was a man named Able
Who worshiped his speaker cable.
He ran it on the floor
And then up over the door
But tripped and fell on the table.

[bregez]

Right after Six Moon came out with this, and the "big rave and reviews" was going on, I bought several of the 40' lengths for my several channels of full active system. At the time, they had white, tan, and dark green in three different lengths. I can't recall now, but I think they were something like a short 20'(?) the popular 40' and something very long. If memory serves, it was the typical 100' extension cord distance. But they never had black that I've ever saw.

But as was mentioned above, some black techflex would help the color issue. A decent cable with a good appearance, and very little work and cost. An equation that's hard to beat.

Bob

Additionally, the same brand/style cable (Woods Yardmaster) was made in two different factories (one in China and the other in Taiwan).  The Chinese cable has a gloss finish where the Taiwan cable had a dull finish.  Six Moon's used the Chinese cable for their White Lightnings.  I built a few with the black Techflex and they look nice with the black over white. 

[Russellc]

I braided 3 25 ft runs of cat 5 cable, and it is a royal pain!  You can braid for a little while, then it all balls up because it was impossible for one person to control the ends.  So you would have to stop, go to the other end and detangle, go back to the other end and braid, over and over.  2 25ft runs for a stereo pair was a lot of frustration!

Russellc