[wilsynet]

Selah:
The Tempesta is a state-of-the-art monitor that offers unparalled performance for the dollar.

We know of no other 7" woofer that performs as well in bass quality and extension; in fact, we invite you to compare with any other speaker using a woofer of this size.

Vapor:

The Vapor Audio Cirrus is made to compete with and beat any stand-mount speaker in the World no matter price.

Pretty much standard marketing, don't you think?  Surely, knowing their mutual aspirations to build world class monitors you don't expect them to say that they built an average speaker to deliver average results.

Selah says they *invite* you to compare.  Vapor says they *made* the speaker to compete with and beat all stand mount speakers, not that they actually *are* better than everything else.  And while it may be true for them, it really is up to you to decide whether their preferences reflect your preferences.

The usual caveats apply.  System synergy, personal preferences, etc.  It even seems very likely that both manufactures could claim that their speaker is better than the other even after a shootout as it is unlikely that one will be absolutely better than the other on every dimension, in every system, with any music, in every room and for every listener.

[vettett15]

Yep, everyone will read those claims differently... I'm not going to argue over Vapor using the word "may" or get Clinton in here to tell us what "is" means.  I'm just saying, if you are going to make these claims then I don't see how you could be against a "fair" shootout (decent equipment, setup, etc), which we should note neither of these guys have said they are against doing this....(we are just assuming).

[wilsynet]

I don't think I was saying that they would reject or be opposed to a shootout (after all, they invite comparison).  I was just speculating it may be too much to ask them to *endorse* a shootout.  It's sort of a lose-lose proposition, and the manufacturer has the potential to look bad by either declining to participate or by agreeing to participate and looking like they also endorse the results.

[vettett15]

You're right, wouldn't expect them to endorse one, just think it would be cool to have an impromptu one.  I think everyone would agree that if one were to purchase either of these speakers they would be very happy.  Especially considering the service and craftsmanship you read about (will adjust the crossover to suit your taste/room, etc).  You just may have that thought in the back of your mind, is the other one better...   Perhaps audiocircle can get a group of people together to pitch in on buying a set of each of these speakers so they can be sent around to everyone for an at home audition. ( I know just a dream).

[Letitroll98]

At this level of quality I think "preferred" is more accurate than "better".  Shootouts are performed all the time at audio societies and clubs around the world, and as someone mentioned there is usually very little consensus between the top contenders.  There's often universal opinions when a product doesn't cut the mustard and is deemed inferior to the other units there.  So again as noted, it's a loser for manufacturers to be directly involved.

And if you've worked at or attended shows, after hours are usually reserved for auditions by serious customers or courting dealers.  So the best that can be hoped for at shows is that the rooms you're interested in have the ability to play your CD or memory stick, which is increasingly more rare.  Thus the importance of opinions from people you trust who have heard the speakers you're interested in, which is why these forums are so valuable.  If only for either adding to your short list or narrowing it down. 

[gooberdude]

Seems like everyone is sorta skirting around the fact that, i think, most local audio clubs have frequent get togethers and 'shootouts' on a regular occurrence.   We can't all make it to audio shows...   To be able to listen to 2-3 totally difft systems in a comfortable setting for an entire afternoon all the while having difft gear thrown into the mix, is about as good as it gets.  At least for me.

St Louis' GAS crew does it right, without prejudice.  To be honest Ryan's best design is of the best i've heard, but I attended GAS outings the last 2 yrs w/o many mentions of Vapor Audio. Not slighting Ryan (he'd shoot me if i was!) but there are SO MANY difft small mfgrs & artists composing the industry that simply getting out & experiencing them is critical. You just don't know what that next guy has dreamed up & created, and how it might work in your home.

Sorry to wax on about shootouts & the like.  Just sayin', they ain't that hard to come by.

I've been to club meetings in st louis & chicago - the mfgrs are always welcome. 

[jonbee]

Shootouts are fun and are very helpful, but I find the subtle qualities that mean a lot to me for long term satisfaction in my environment are often not easily found in short term listening sessions.
It is precisely for that reason that I have bought so many speakers over the years - I want to listen deeply, in my environment, to get a handle on how something will work for me long term. I never review anything I don't own, and then I only mention those speakers that are worth the time, in my opinion. In other words, I don't review speakers I don't like. Out of humility I know others may like them just fine, and they are also right.  Reviews and opinions get me on the trail, but only a few of those candidates truly rings my bell, and I know of no other way to get to the musical truth as I hear it but to take the time to really get to know their sound in my world. A state of the art speaker that doesn't mesh well in my world is of no use at all to me.
I know this approach is not practical for most listeners, so all the other info we can scrounge is the best one can do, and it can be helpful, but can never be decisive. The number of hyped contenders that I've heard that didn't make the cut for me is astounding. Of the 250+ pairs of good, well reviewed speakers I've owned, perhaps a half-dozen models have really brought the music home to me unmolested. Pondering this as the outcome of 44 years of sorting has led me to the Tempestas as my last speaker for my main system.  For me, the size, price, beautiful cabinetry, and musical truthfulness put them in my first cabin. For you, maybe, perhaps probably, not.
In a world with thousands of models, the existence of "better" somewhere is almost always certain, but for me, if I know one thing after these years, I know "my" truth when I hear it. As hard as it has been to find, that truth is good enough. 
So good luck. There are no absolutes here. Each of us has the only vote that counts in this contest. I suggest that if you find a speaker that speaks the truth to you, buy it if you can and call it good.

[doug s.]

Shootouts are fun and are very helpful, but I find the subtle qualities that mean a lot to me for long term satisfaction in my environment are often not easily found in short term listening sessions.
It is precisely for that reason that I have bought so many speakers over the years - I want to listen deeply, in my environment, to get a handle on how something will work for me long term. I never review anything I don't own, and then I only mention those speakers that are worth the time, in my opinion. In other words, I don't review speakers I don't like. Out of humility I know others may like them just fine, and they are also right.  Reviews and opinions get me on the trail, but only a few of those candidates truly rings my bell, and I know of no other way to get to the musical truth as I hear it but to take the time to really get to know their sound in my world. A state of the art speaker that doesn't mesh well in my world is of no use at all to me.
I know this approach is not practical for most listeners, so all the other info we can scrounge is the best one can do, and it can be helpful, but can never be decisive. The number of hyped contenders that I've heard that didn't make the cut for me is astounding. Of the 250+ pairs of good, well reviewed speakers I've owned, perhaps a half-dozen models have really brought the music home to me unmolested. Pondering this as the outcome of 44 years of sorting has led me to the Tempestas as my last speaker for my main system.  For me, the size, price, beautiful cabinetry, and musical truthfulness put them in my first cabin. For you, maybe, perhaps probably, not.
In a world with thousands of models, the existence of "better" somewhere is almost always certain, but for me, if I know one thing after these years, I know "my" truth when I hear it. As hard as it has been to find, that truth is good enough. 
So good luck. There are no absolutes here. Each of us has the only vote that counts in this contest. I suggest that if you find a speaker that speaks the truth to you, buy it if you can and call it good.

your "last" speakers for your main system?   mebbe you are fooling yourself, but you ain't fooling anyone else! 

hey, i have a nice bridge f/s, wanna buy it?   

doug s.

[*Scotty*]

Doug, depending on how old jonbee is, they might just be his LAST pair.
Scotty

[doug s.]

Doug, depending on how old jonbee is, they might just be his LAST pair.
Scotty

wow, that's harsh!     the way jon goes thru speakers makes my tuna affliction seem pretty tame i comparison!   

doug s.

[wilsynet]

You gotta admit that 250+ pairs of speakers is a stunning number.  If he says it's his last, he's got a better shot at it than most.  One might want to ask how many other times has he declared a pair of speakers as his last, what the longest time between speakers has ever been, and compare that to life expentancy.

I wonder if we can get Vegas to put some odds on this.

[jonbee]

Tempestas as my last speaker for my MAIN system. 

I have 3 systems. There are several reasons why they should be the last there, high among them the onset of arthritis, which limits the size and weight i can manage. Also, the wife has a say in that system, and she loves the Ts. She think they're the best I've had as well, and she has a good ear- and eye.
Since I got the Tempestas in April, I've bought another 6 pairs or so for my other systems. If I buy others, it will be to play with in those systems. I bought Merlins for the office this year, but they weren't close to the Volent VL-2s I use there, much less the Selahs. The Vapors would fit well physically in there too, and are somewhat intriguing. As a 2-way, I see the Cirrus as an interesting comparison to the Volents, which have some very remarkable attributes for their size, as several reviewers have noted.
So, it does go on.

[kip_]

I have 3 systems. There are several reasons why they should be the last there, high among them the onset of arthritis, which limits the size and weight i can manage. Also, the wife has a say in that system, and she loves the Ts. She think they're the best I've had as well, and she has a good ear- and eye.
Since I got the Tempestas in April, I've bought another 6 pairs or so for my other systems. If I buy others, it will be to play with in those systems. I bought Merlins for the office this year, but they weren't close to the Volent VL-2s I use there, much less the Selahs. The Vapors would fit well physically in there too, and are somewhat intriguing. As a 2-way, I see the Cirrus as an interesting comparison to the Volents, which have some very remarkable attributes for their size, as several reviewers have noted.
So, it does go on.

Six Pairs! Wow - all in the same finish?

[Letitroll98]

wow, that's harsh!     the way jon goes thru speakers makes my tuna affliction seem pretty tame i comparison!   

doug s.

You gotta admit that 250+ pairs of speakers is a stunning number.  If he says it's his last, he's got a better shot at it than most.  One might want to ask how many other times has he declared a pair of speakers as his last, what the longest time between speakers has ever been, and compare that to life expentancy.

I wonder if we can get Vegas to put some odds on this.

Doing the math for 250 speaker pairs (I guess Jon didn't buy any 5 or 7 speaker HT sets?) over 44 years comes out to a new pair every 64.284 days, or rounded to an approximation, a new set every two months.  For 44 years.  There should be a support group for this.  Then again there should prolly be a support group for all of us.   

[jtwrace]

Then again there should prolly be a support group for all of us.   

There is!  You're on it.  That's why most come here....you start to feel "normal". 

[PMAT]

I have a new goal! 300 pair. Only 286 left. What IS the penalty for draining your 401k?

[Letitroll98]

There is!  You're on it.  That's why most come here....you start to feel "normal".

Ha!  I was thinking the same thing as I typed it.

I have a new goal! 300 pair. Only 286 left. What IS the penalty for draining your 401k?

10% penalty plus 10% tax initially, adjusted later at filing.  Just sayin'.

[saisunil]

.

[Rclark]

 

[doug s.]

I have 3 systems. There are several reasons why they should be the last there, high among them the onset of arthritis, which limits the size and weight i can manage. Also, the wife has a say in that system, and she loves the Ts. She think they're the best I've had as well, and she has a good ear- and eye.
Since I got the Tempestas in April, I've bought another 6 pairs or so for my other systems. If I buy others, it will be to play with in those systems. I bought Merlins for the office this year, but they weren't close to the Volent VL-2s I use there, much less the Selahs. The Vapors would fit well physically in there too, and are somewhat intriguing. As a 2-way, I see the Cirrus as an interesting comparison to the Volents, which have some very remarkable attributes for their size, as several reviewers have noted.
So, it does go on.

sorry, man - no way you will be able to resist sneaking another pair of speakers into your #1 rig, arthritis be damned!  you yust can't stop!!!   

i haven't been at it as long, but i have averaged about 1 new tuna every 3 months, over the past 20 years.     i am also enamoured of speakers, but size/cost, and living space the past eight years (1 room studio apartment) has kept it down to a more manageable number.  so, it's about 1 pair every 14-15 months for the past 20 years...

ymmv,

doug s.