Help me make up my mind

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NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #20 on: 7 Feb 2012, 11:06 pm »
Doc,
I replaced my 20 year old Classe DR-4L preamp with a T8+ and I think it made a HUGE improvement to my system.  I was an even bigger change than my upgrade from a AVA 350 to the 400R amp.  I mostly listen to hard rock and metal, so I disagree with any comments that tubes wont really improve metal. If you really don't think that tubes are for you, then I am sure that you will like any of Franks solid state pre-amps.
 

Art_Chicago

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #21 on: 8 Feb 2012, 01:28 am »
Doc,
I replaced my 20 year old Classe DR-4L preamp with a T8+ and I think it made a HUGE improvement to my system.  I was an even bigger change than my upgrade from a AVA 350 to the 400R amp.  I mostly listen to hard rock and metal, so I disagree with any comments that tubes wont really improve metal. If you really don't think that tubes are for you, then I am sure that you will like any of Franks solid state pre-amps.
 

That is cool. So how do tubes improve metal? Do they make the metal softer?  :D
Seriously though, I do want to know what differences a tube preamp makes for hard rock. Another thing-did you compare AVA solid-state vs T8+ in your system?

Tom Alverson

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #22 on: 8 Feb 2012, 01:38 am »
Tubes are made of metal.  Solid state is made of silicon.

NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #23 on: 8 Feb 2012, 11:03 am »
Art Chicago,
I have not directly compared AVA SS vs. Tube but I own 3 of Franks Tube products and love them all. A friend of mine is considering an AVA SS pre-amp and I would love to a/b them.  My comparison was between my SS Classe Dr-4l (bought new in 1990) and my new T8+.  Vocals sound more "full" and life-like.  The T8 takes the "edge" off and sounds "quieter". When I went back to the SS, there was a "harshness" that I never noticed before.
My statement about metal with tubes was not directed at any one particular comment on this thread. I have been into this hobby for over 20 years and have constantly had arguments with "Audiophiles" that say that "tubes are great for classical and accoustic, but for metal you need solid-state".
I recently listened to Metallica-Ride the Lightning on my CD (made in 1987?) and it was "noisy" and "bright" but not as bad as it used to sound.  I put on my new 180 gram 45 rpm LP of it, and it sounded better, but not perfect. Unfortunately most metal is badly recorded. My system is very "revealing" so garbage in-garbage out. I have listened to metal all my life and wish that these bands recorded stuff better. Lets face it, when most of thses band recorded, they were just happy to get something on tape. They were not worried about trying to make their albums sound as great as Steely Dans "aja".

SteveFord

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #24 on: 8 Feb 2012, 11:57 am »
For the "metal you need solid state" crowd, they probably haven't made the connection between tube guitar amps and home stereo equipment.
It took me forever to make that simple jump of logic and it was the tubes which brought the sound I wanted to my stereos just like they do with a guitar.
Modern tube audio componets don't necessarily have to be your grandpa's old Motorola console.


rcag_ils

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #25 on: 8 Feb 2012, 01:50 pm »
There's really no distinction between tube and SS sound in Frank's product. The so-called "tube sound" or "solid state" sound generally referred to the characteristics in bad audio product.
« Last Edit: 8 Feb 2012, 07:21 pm by rcag_ils »

Art_Chicago

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #26 on: 8 Feb 2012, 03:19 pm »
There's really no distinction between tube and SS sound in Frank's product. The so-called "tube sound" or "solid state" sound generally referred to the characterists in bad audio product.

totally agree, that's why I think the solid state insight+ preamp will work just fine for most heavy music.

avahifi

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #27 on: 8 Feb 2012, 04:12 pm »
While the differences are minor, the T8+ vacuum tube preamp is a bit more "musically involving" that the Insight+ SL solid state preamp.  The rest of your system has to be of very high overall quality to pick this out. We think the fact that we have used two wildly different technologies, and achieved nearly the same outstanding results with both, might make you think that we know what we are doing. The differences may be related to overload capability, or perhaps just the inherent limitations of the active devices.  Certainly we cannot put numbers on them at this time.  If we could, this would allow us to make each technology we use work even better than it does now.

For both our solid state designs and our vacuum tube designs, the object was to not screw up the source material, not to come up with some kind of obvious sonic signature.  If your goal is to have your equipment create some kind of signature sound, then you are just designing in some kind of likeable distortion.  Our goal is to build equipment that is faithful to the source music, nothing more, nothing less.

The remaining small differences between our use of one technology or another just tells us we don't have perfect results yet.  However we are sure that any AVA equipment you choose will provide you with a musical listening experience you will enjoy.

By the way, the Transcendence 8+ is our best selling preamplifier and probably is the best compromise between cost and musical enjoyment we offer at this time.  I don't think we have ever had one returned under the terms of our satisfaction guarantee.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine


Devil Doc

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #28 on: 21 Feb 2012, 06:39 pm »
Well the deed is done. Just ordered my T-8+. Should be here in about 3 weeks. I've never been very good at waiting. No primary impulse control. :lol:

Doc

floresjc

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #29 on: 22 Feb 2012, 05:40 pm »
I think you made a good choice. I have an Insight preamp, and it sounds amazing, but ever since I got my Fet Valve amp (which is hybrid), I love having a tube in the chain. If I were to do it all again, I'd get the matching hybrid preamp, or even possibly the T-8.

PMAT

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #30 on: 22 Feb 2012, 08:17 pm »
Roll the tubes in flower.........and listen for the wet spot.  :o

Devil Doc

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #31 on: 22 Feb 2012, 08:32 pm »
What kind of flowers? Roses, chrysanthemums? :wink:

Doc

Listens2tubes

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #32 on: 23 Feb 2012, 01:45 pm »
 :notworthy: Brilliant choice, the T8+. :thumb:

martyo

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #33 on: 23 Feb 2012, 04:02 pm »
I have been enjoying mine for almost 5 years, hope it works out as well for you! 8)

ArthurDent

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #34 on: 23 Feb 2012, 05:39 pm »
I have been enjoying mine for almost 5 years, hope it works out as well for you! 8)

What he said Doc. I've had mine about the same period, paired both with an AVA 250+, and Ultra FV 500. I think you'll be well served. Good luck with the wait.  :thumb:

mark funk

Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #35 on: 23 Feb 2012, 07:08 pm »
I listen to a T-5 for over 7 years now! Still sounds great! I well upgrade to a T-8 soon, I hope.  :green:
Good man!, you well be happy :thumb:


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Tone Depth

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #36 on: 23 Feb 2012, 11:54 pm »
Frank,

Would "inherent limitations of the active devices" pertain to manipulating signal voltage swings, or do the active devices only manipulate current?

... While the differences are minor, the T8+ vacuum tube preamp is a bit more "musically involving" that the Insight+ SL solid state preamp...  The differences may be related to overload capability, or perhaps just the inherent limitations of the active devices...

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Indiansprings

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #37 on: 24 Feb 2012, 03:04 am »
Who has the AVA system in Phoenix to demo? I am up in North Phoenix.

Lefty052347

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #38 on: 25 Feb 2012, 03:26 am »
The opa627 is the op amp we use in the Insight +.  It will amplify both voltage and current but we buffer it with a lme 49600 current buffer.  In this case I believe Frank was refering the opa627 versus the 6cg7 with regards to voltage amplifaction.  Also there are interactions going on inside any op amp that we can't "see" but can often hear and that is why we are always looking for better devices.

Regards,
Dean

Tone Depth

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Re: Help me make up my mind
« Reply #39 on: 25 Feb 2012, 03:48 am »
Thanks, Dean!