[berni]

I'm thinking it's because they aren't usually available off the shelf. It isn't a very hard project, but most people don't seem to have the time or inclination for that level of DIY.

To be honest, it is much easier to Diy it then most other designs. Almost "normal" diyer can make it.
I've done much harder things with boxed speakers...

[Rclark]

The problem for me with the Brahma's is it will be a gamble. Some people have told me they have the wrong QTS, some people have said the QTS isn't that bad. They also have a range which stops about 60-70 hz so if I want I don't think I can tune them to punch me in the chest.

I will have to buy external crossover, amp, wires, ancillary parts, flatpack, and hope for the best. Maybe it is best something I can try later down the road.
 
Now if I do the GR OB sub approach, well then that will exceed the cost of a pair of Legends by several hundred dollars. $600 ish each for a set of twelves and the amp.. then flatpacks.. probably 200 - 300 there.. No rez (pricey), etc.

 Looking at going back to school in May and also buying a motorcycle so I think the Epik's are the most economical solution.

 Later I can move them to the living room and give OB a real try.

 Of note are users of very high end speakers (Thiels, etc), and a lot of Maggie owners who run these subs and say they integrate exceptionally well.

 But believe me, I would LOVE to run the two big 45lb each Brahma drivers OB and call it a day. I just don't think it's a simple solution, it's a risk, and might not perform how I want. I need some midbass power with my subs.

[josh358]

To be honest, it is much easier to Diy it then most other designs. Almost "normal" diyer can make it.
I've done much harder things with boxed speakers...

I think you're right. It's just that apparently a lot of audiophiles shy away from any kind of DIY, when Stereophile ran a DIY issue many years ago readers were furious.

[JP78]

Yeah the main changes are

1) no more fuse, no more attenuator bar

2) upgraded crossover (I obviously opted for the best parts possible, but you don't have to), now seperate from the panel in own housing, and sonically isolated with provided iso-dots (panel controlled as one piece now, instead of segmented, sounds incredible this way)

3) replacement of stock mdf frame with hardwood frame, stand, spikes (provides most of the sonic improvement I'm guessing)

4) reversal of the pole piece.

5) improved binding posts and connectors.

 Probably more, minor stuff I can't think of. But pretty extensive changes when taken as a whole. It really is a whole new speaker in many respects. Still an MMG, but far greater performance and without the sweet spot limitations of before. And yes, awfully nice to look at.

Thanks for posting your journey! As somebody with very little experience with Maggies, can you let me know a ballpark of what these upgrades cost (piecemeal)? I read through the first couple pages of this thread only so apologies if I missed it.

Best,

[Rclark]

tell you what, here is the webpage, everything you need to know is right there. 

http://www.indiespinzone.com/magnestand.html

[jackfish]

Here is a phone camera shot of my system a couple of weeks ago:



Here are the MMG Magnestands in my old room just after I got them:



Planar/Quasi-ribbon speakers demand a subwoofer that is sealed, servo-controlled and exhibits low Q. Rythmik is about the only subwoofer under $1000 which meets these criteria.

My equipment list:
13.3" MacBook Air, 4GB RAM, 256GB SSD, iTunes/BitPerfect
MacBook Air SuperDrive
Western Digital My Book Essential 2TB USB HD
Schiit Bifrost USB DAC
Emotiva USP-1, ERC-1 and two UPA-1s
Pro-Ject Xpression III and AT440MLa
AKAI AT-2600 and Harman Kardon TD4400
Grado SR80i
Magnepan MMG Magnestands
Rythmik Audio F12

[Rclark]

Wow nice rig! Care to give some impressions?

[medium jim]

Call me skeptical, but I don't think it is physically possible for mere x/o's and stands can produce a 6db increase in the spl as claimed.  John would be wise to back that claim up with testing in an Anechoic chamber to support this.

I have no doubt that they do sound different than stock and am glad that they turned out to your liking.  It takes a lot of guts to send your speakers and all that cash in the fear that your ears won't like them when you get them back.  Me on the other hand would rather audition before I plunk down the cash or have a damn good idea what they sound like before hand. 

Jim

[Rclark]

Eh, rather not get into that debate, it's just bickering in the end. Tell you what, what I get some measuring gear we can take that up from there. Bottom line is they sound fabulous, I feel zero upgrade-itis for speakers, not even slightly. The sound is fantastic beyond words. If they are louder, hey! Great!

 let's just let that one go for now.

And by the way, these are frames, not just stands. There's also quite a bit more involved as well. Be skeptical if you must, but I ain't. Neither is Berndt or Jackfish.

[medium jim]

rclark:

It is a matter where a claim is being made that he can make a hard to drive 86db speaker into a easy to drive 92.  John hasn't published to the best of my knowledge a white sheet to back this up.  My concern is that some guy or guys are going to say if I go for the full Gunned that I can spend less on the front end to drive them. Get my drift?

No doubt that they sound different that stock, maybe like when you cup your ears different and really are louder in the sweet spot.  Why then doesn't John post some emperical evidence to the same?

Jim

[Chris Adams]

Call me skeptical, but I don't think it is physically possible for mere x/o's and stands can produce a 6db increase in the spl as claimed.  John would be wise to back that claim up with testing in an Anechoic chamber to support this.

I have no doubt that they do sound different than stock and am glad that they turned out to your liking.  It takes a lot of guts to send your speakers and all that cash in the fear that your ears won't like them when you get them back.  Me on the other hand would rather audition before I plunk down the cash or have a damn good idea what they sound like before hand. 

Jim

I have a RS sound pressure meter that I use to set up my sub but all info on volume that follows is subjective. Room is 12.5x13.5x8 with a couple of book shelves and some foam dampening on the back (behind me) wall.

I started out with stock MMGs and then upgraded to better parts in the xover. Nice improvement, same sensitivity.

I then built wooden stands to mount the mdf frames on that raised the panels about 9" off the floor and stood them straight up and down. Nice improvement to image, stage width and depth. Bass was reduced slightly but firmed up. Reasonable trade off. Same sensitivity.

I then upgraded the xover to the same original Magnestand series components that PG used from the beginning (Dynamicap). Everything improved. They sounded smooth, detailed and very open midrange. Sensitivity, good question. What I hear is more midrange and the perception that it is louder overall. Not saying it measures louder, just sounds a bit louder.

I damaged a panel when I removed it to do some more tweaks. I managed to repair it but in the meantime I ordered a new pair of MMGs because I had decided to send them to PG for the full Monty. I compared the the new stock MMGs to my stand mounted, series xover ones and the new speakers were definitely less sensitive. But not a lot. 6db? I don't think so. Indeed the midrange is quieter on the new speaks and louder on the stand mounts.

Hmmm . . . I have a pair of bookshelf Polks that are rated at 89db. I set them up while my MMGs are being gunned. I do not have to turn the volume up as much to get the same listening levels as I did with the stand mount MMGs. Apples, oranges, I know. Direct radiating vs planar di-pole.

What does this prove? Only that to my ears the series xover stand mount MMGs were slightly louder than the stock MMGs and the 89db bookshelf speaks were louder than either pair of MMGs.

Just some subjective observations on my part. Without controlled measurements,  there's no way to know exact numbers.

I will say that the stand mount, series xover MMGs wet my pants on a regular basis. It will be interesting to hear what the Magnestands with the new upgraded xover and wood frames will sound like.

[Davey]

Unfortunately, there's no free lunch on the physics.

There are ways a person could achieve a 6db SPL increase though.
Here's one:  Acquire another set of MMG's and stack them on top of the existing speakers and wire them in parallel.  Assuming your amplifier could handle the 2 ohm load you'd have a full 6db SPL increase.

There is no doubt the MMG's sound a bit louder with the Magnestand series crossover alignment.  I explained the reason for this (extensively) on that other forum and posted some measurements on my webpage a few years ago.

I agree with Rclark.  There's little point in further discussion on this claim.  People are free to believe what they want to believe.  If you enjoy the speakers, that's the final word and all that really matters.

Cheers,

Dave.

[medium jim]

Davey:

Agreed, nothing more to add or discuss.

Jim

[Chris Adams]

What about the guy who spends the 2K to have them Gunned and fully expects them to gain 6db so he/she can spend 2k less on the amps ?

Totally agree. And from my listening, I agree on the puffery. Just some observations on my part that I hoped would coincide with what you said. I don't believe disparaging other gear is advantageous and don't believe you did so.

Are you using a xover to high pass the panels? And if so, what? I've been considering a Bryston 10B, but haven't wanted to cough up the change to experiment. I have a Rythmik/GR Research F 12 that Danny modded by adhering floor tiles to the inside.

[jtwrace]

Danny modded by adhering ceramic floor tiles to the inside.

Are you sure they're ceramic?  I've heard of vinyl floor tiles but not ceramic.   

[medium jim]

Chris:

I'm using the passive X/O's that were upgraded prior to my ownership as I like the sound/imaging.  I'm using the active in my subs along with a pair of maggie mates.

The Wazoo, who I hope will join over here, is a Bryston 10B owner and likes what it did for his system.

Jim

[Chris Adams]

Are you sure they're ceramic?  I've heard of vinyl floor tiles but not ceramic.   

You may be right. I don't know and didn't ask Danny. Here's part of the description:
I have lined the inside of these with an additional 3/4" layer plus heavy floor tiles.

[jtwrace]

You may be right. I don't know and didn't ask Danny. Here's part of the description:
I have lined the inside of these with an additional 3/4" layer plus heavy floor tiles.

Yeah, I'm thinking vinyl not ceramic.   

[Chris Adams]

Rclark,

Sorry for the off topic stuff.

I'll give my impressions of the gunned MMGs when they arrive and I have had some listening time. Probably 2 or 3 weeks from now.

[Rclark]

Nice! Ok.

Yeah, it's not as though they are quiet. I actually don't think I've yet run them to full spl yet in this nodded form. The mod brought bass and bass sucks power.

I get around the mid 80's, what I can gather from my little phone meter. Thing is as you guys know well, 85 db on a planar sounds much more impressive because of that huge radiating surface.

 bigger amps are the next update (Ncores), and that headroom should max these things out, finally. I'm guessing around 100db or so, which is LOUD for my room.

I'm on an AC/DC kick right now. Last night pulled out Razor's Edge and with these mods I am not suffering, they play it  , could just use some more power but speakers are SET. So good.

 I truly see spl as a niggling point though because the sound is just so epic. looking forward to your impressions!