[wisnon]

Yeah me too! Not seeing the need at the moment either, I think merely upgrading subs, doing treatments, will make this system very competitive sonically.. You already know 

 And when I switch into hirez recordings on my future super nice dac and setup, I'm just very excited to hear these playing that sort of level of source. They sure are making the most of my ERC-2 though, I'll tell you that. No complaints here.

What make/brand of DAC are you thinking of? Tubes, DSD capable, expensive, cheap giant-killer, etc?

[Rclark]

 Had an XDA-1 but happily discovered it has same SQ as the ERC-2 player. As it was on its way out (seems like it was out for less than a year), I smartly sold that sucker.

 Honestly I really dig my Virtue Two.2, modded, on batteries, loooove the SQ pairing with the maggies and love how it throws the panels around despite not being an uber tube amp. It's really amazing and just proof of the quality of Virtue stuff...

 So as long as it's still coming out, I gotta roll with the Virtue Dac when it comes. Pretty much guaranteed it will be a high performance piece, battery powered, mandatory for me. Having batteries on my amp, and on my Warpspeed Octo (ldr volume, functions as preamp), has shown me the light there.

 So as long as it's coming out, you know, sometime this year, that's my choice.

[wisnon]

Very cool. Thanks for the reply.

[Rclark]

 Still breaking in, but I am experiencing a very new (for me) phenomenon. No matter what cd I put in, I can hear every single word clearly. This is totally blowing my mind. I can put the roughest, sludgiest recording possible in there, something I've listened to all my life, and now I can hear the enunciation of every word. It's really something else!

 You can hear so far into the recording now. The MMG was awesome before (basically a smaller 1.6, 3.6, etc. They're all mylar, wires, and mdf), but this is truly extraordinary fidelity.

 Very excited to see where room treatment takes this further, but these speakers are the REAL DEAL.

[tabrink]

Awesome rclark. What fun you are having.
I am jealous! Your journey is very special. Reminds me of my time with the Omega Super 8's.
Some Nirvana cables and Seth's new DAC and you be jammin' even more!
Really nice looking wood.
Nice job!
Tom
BTW just got my Sensation back with the Clarity's.  Big big sound!

[Rclark]

Oh yeah! My Virtue is also on Clarity's so you know! The Clarity's took my amp up into another realm.

I was actually kind of sad today because I realized I will never experience jumps in fidelity as awesome as I am experiencing right now.

 You get these guys, you know, well, well into the hobby, and their reviews of gear are so bland, but you realize, it's their fourtieth preamp, etc. I think any real big big improvements from this point (speakers, amps, etc) are also going to be very expensive.

 Getting to start this with such, special pieces, it's so hard to maintain a conservative voice when reviewing when I really want to get all Eclein with it OOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG IT's SO GOOD with 85 dancing emoticons.

[Letitroll98]

And it's great to be excited over an upgrade that works so well, no matter how long you've been in the hobby.  I have no doubt the improvements are real, you echo everyone who has gone with the Magnestand mod on MMG's.  But yes, after a few months it will be the norm for sound quality in your home, and there will be that new thing that can get it just, that, much, better.

When you say jaded, it's just the thing that comes with experience.  It's not that we don't get excited, it's having been through so many of these cycles of "that's better", "I need it better", "that's better", "no, it's better the way it was" that when we do get happy about some change or another, we know the fall of disenchantment will eventually come.  That's why I keep a lot of equipment about, easy to make a change and play with things without maxing the credit card all the time.

[josh358]

When you say jaded, it's just the thing that comes with experience.  It's not that we don't get excited, it's having been through so many of these cycles of "that's better", "I need it better", "that's better", "no, it's better the way it was" that when we do get happy about some change or another, we know the fall of disenchantment will eventually come.  That's why I keep a lot of equipment about, easy to make a change and play with things without maxing the credit card all the time.

That's a good strategy.

When I was a kid, I wanted nothing but perfection, and every time something new showed up in the audio magazines I coveted it. Now, I want nothing but perfection, and every time something new shows up in the audio magazines I cover it. But I realized at some point that I could disassociate that from the pleasure I take with listening to and tinkering with my own system. The trick that works for me is in finding the components that can take your breath away. That I find has amazingly little to do with price. Despite their obvious flaws -- lack of bass extension, midbass suckouts, veiling, IM, etc. -- The MMG's can do that. Whereas I've heard $40,000 speakers that can't. Sure, you can improve on these things, which is why I got new Tympanis. But I could happily listen to the MMG's for the rest of my life, always taking pleasure in what they do and I find that components that have that quality are a great tonic for the obsessive upgrade itch.

[Rclark]

 You're right, even bone stock, despite those flaws, the MMG is breathtaking. The mod sure takes it a long long way further but if the MMG didn't do what it did (magic) there's no way in hell I would have proceeded with the mod, not if that foundation wasn't strong.

 Letitroll, I don't say you guys seem jaded, just almost bored. Eclein said it best, cause he's about where I'm at: he once said, "how can you guys stay so calm when it sounds soo good!".

 I'm sure I'll get to experience a lot of fun down the road, let's be real, this is my hobby. Hell I just spent nearly 3K for these speakers and most people would find that an appalling, decadent amount on speakers. So yeah, this doesn't stop here for me.

 I will say though, you guys are dead wrong about ported subs not working well. Maybe my room just works with it, but honestly if this sub wasn't working, I would shut it off and accellerate my funds for some sealed subs.  The modded MMG provides enough bass (the hipass is shallow) now to enjoy and I've even shut the sub off and still had a good time with it, so if this sub wasn't jammin', it would be gone already.

 I still intend to do upgrade to multiple sealed subs. But man, those sealed subs had better rock my socks off, cause this ported sub works very well. I maintain that my hipassed amp is probably what makes it work, there's not a whole lot of integration to deal with, the sub takes much of the duty.

[josh358]

I think subs, like main speakers, have to be put into perspective -- a good ported sub will sound good, it's just the ones that are aligned primarily for home theater that don't (which happens to be a lot of them). A lot of high-end speakers use ports. So if you're satisfied with your sub, no reason to go with something new. If you do get the itch, all other things being equal (driver quality, box construction, alignment, etc.), you'll hear the difference in a sealed sub, and even more of a difference in a dipole sub -- a big increase in realism (but less slam and extension).

[josh358]

PS Stereo subs will give you a better sense of ambiance, and somewhat smoother frequency response. Everyone who adds a second sub says it's a big improvement.

[Berndt]

When I had my magnestands smgas I used Duke LeGuenes Audio Kinesis swarm sub woofer system.
He is a great boon to planar owners with his multiple sub systems.
And he has a circle here.

[Rclark]

Yeah subs are one area where I definitely haven't heard many of them, and none of the good ones. I'm struggling to understand that it can be as much an improvement as the speakers. I just have no reference there. The speakers handle just such a larger range that as long as the sub isn't slurred or one-notey, it fills the room, then it seems fine. I'm sure it will click when I upgrade.

Maybe it's a case of my sub is standing on the shoulders of a giant (my speakers), like some guy off the street playing hand-cymbals for Jimi Hendrix.

[josh358]

No way of knowing. I can tell you from experience that once you've heard Tympani midbass, you'll forever yearn for it. But subs are a somewhat different beast.

[Letitroll98]

Yeah subs are one area where I definitely haven't heard many of them, and none of the good ones. I'm struggling to understand that it can be as much an improvement as the speakers. I just have no reference there. The speakers handle just such a larger range that as long as the sub isn't slurred or one-notey, it fills the room, then it seems fine. I'm sure it will click when I upgrade.

Maybe it's a case of my sub is standing on the shoulders of a giant (my speakers), like some guy off the street playing hand-cymbals for Jimi Hendrix.

Impact.  Think of the difference between a distant thunderclap and a lightning bolt hitting next door.  Both are loud, both are impressive, both can create the same frequencies, but there's really no comparison because of the impact.  The jump factor is what gives really great subs their distinction.  The concurrent benefit is a driver that fast reproduces the overtones and harmonics of bass instruments very nicely, so sounds great musically as well.   

[Rclark]

Well, on that note I think I'm interested in trying the Epik subwoofers the most. From what I've found there is a large percentage of planar owners who own these subs and post about them, and really love them. Usable to 16hz if your room will support it, and have a lot of midbass power, which will go very well with these maggies,. It should be about as perfect a total sound as I could want.

[Rclark]

damn!

 I just shut off my sub and part of me is wishing my amp was no longer hipassed. I am stunned by how much bass these MMG's put out now.....

 I hate to say that because I couldn't imagine it being true. PG is right about not even needing a sub with these. Crazy! I mean, if it's going to 50hz it's going there fairly strongly despite being hacked at the knees. I should pass my sub lower.

 I'm playing some hip hop right now (Busta Rhymes, the Bcoming) and it is a full, satisfying sound. Totally nuts that it can do that. It's not super super low, but you almost couldn't tell.

 Really impressive, the overall change from the stock speaker. Still breaking in, but very impressive. For certain types of music I'll want a more pronounced punch, but subs for that.

[Rclark]

Just a series of revelations! Been a great first week.

That was the first time I listened to a full album with the sub off and I must say these Gunn'd MMG's rocked it, I am seriously very impressed. Just so big and coherent, it really is like wrapping your room in some badass headphones. In fact, with the sub off, I just fell in love with the sound even more. As far as the bass, yes, I can hear how it is a MUCH better quality than the sub, if not as low, obviously. It must be like an OB sub, this planar bass, as far as how it operates, and I really like the sound. And without the sub on, the sound crystallized into this GORGEOUS EAR CANDY, I am loving were these crossovers are going. So so good!

 So I think I have a clearer understanding of just what kind of sub I will need to match this.. I had never really payed strict attention to the quality of the bass in the mod because I was too busy with the sub on.

[josh358]

Just a series of revelations! Been a great first week.

That was the first time I listened to a full album with the sub off and I must say these Gunn'd MMG's rocked it, I am seriously very impressed. Just so big and coherent, it really is like wrapping your room in some badass headphones. In fact, with the sub off, I just fell in love with the sound even more. As far as the bass, yes, I can hear how it is a MUCH better quality than the sub, if not as low, obviously. It must be like an OB sub, this planar bass, as far as how it operates, and I really like the sound. And without the sub on, the sound crystallized into this GORGEOUS EAR CANDY, I am loving were these crossovers are going. So so good!

 So I think I have a clearer understanding of just what kind of sub I will need to match this.. I had never really payed strict attention to the quality of the bass in the mod because I was too busy with the sub on.

Exactly! Planar bass and OB subs are both dipole bass and they have basically the same advantage. When you listen to bass in a room, you're literally listening inside an organ pipe and it's tooting along with the music. It isn't unusual to have 10 dB swings in the frequency response and worse, short notes turn into looooong ones because the sound is resonating back and forth, and even worse, you can get pitch shift, in which the note actually changes frequency as it plays! Dipole bass reduces that effect by 2/3, so what you hear is more natural sounding. It sounds a lot more like real bass instruments.

[Rclark]

That is actually the best explanation on that I've seen. And measuring will probably be a neat eye opener on that.

I dont want to give noobs the wrong idea though: these are not jbl's or house party speakers. It's about sq in your room. Once they are playing, and you're there listening, it's nearly impossible to pry yourself away. Hell I barely slept last night because of them.