Revisiting the X-Statik's...

Chops · « **on:** 22 Dec 2011, 03:11 am »

A lot has changed over the past couple of years since I've been on here. I've moved into an apartment 50 miles away with my girlfriend, and I have built up two separate systems, a 2-ch system and a small HT system.

Long story short, the X-Statik's and X-Voce were put out of commission for a while due to lack of space with the growth of the 2-ch system. Also, I've gone through several different speakers including a pair of NHT 2.9's.

Well things are changing again and I recently reinstated the X-Statik's and X-Voce. I went a step further and upgraded my Onkyo TX-SR607 receiver to a brand new TX-NR809 along with not one, but two Polk Audio PSW505's.

After everything is said and done, I forgot how good these speakers sounded. For one thing, I went from a sub-par 6.0 HT system to a full blown 7.2 HT system. Just the X-Voce alone produces such a large, wide and even sound throughout the room with voices, action and music. It gives a lifelike size and feel to the sound, matching well with the 50" plasma and even better with the 100" powered drop down screen. The X-Statik's also produce a very large sound throughout the room. Wide, tall, deep, very three dimensional. When all three are playing, it's a great thing!

Since I have updated the HT system and reinstated the "X-Gang", I haven't even turned on the 2-ch system, and I just bought a 2 month old Monarchy Audio SM-70 Pro amp for that system!

Now I'm pondering the idea of doing crossover upgrades on the X-Statik's and X-Voce if I can be convinced of the improvements. Maybe the Ninja upgrades or just capacitor and resistor upgrades.

Chops · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 03:15 am »

Oh, forgot a few pics!

corndog71 · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 01:03 pm »

I would highly recommend the crossover upgrades.

You haven't heard how good they really are until then.

Chops · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 01:36 pm »

I don't know yet. I'm still on the fence about it. I've also been offered the cap and resistor upgrade kit from another member. What's the difference between the two other than price? I would be looking at the "Elite" upgrade. The others are too rich for my blood.

corndog71 · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 02:44 pm »

The most basic upgrade would be for the tweeter circuit which entails the 2 caps on the right side of the pic above and 2 resistors (for each X-Statik). This will provide a easily noticeable bump in upper frequency clarity and open up the soundstage further. This in my opinion is a must to hear the best from the encore tweeters. This also applies to the X-Voce. These already come bypassed with Sonicap Gen 2 caps but even more improvement can be had by bypassing with Sonicap Platinums though at a big bump on cost. I'm currently running platinums on my Voce but not my X-statiks. One of these days.

The next step would be to replace the very large cap in the midrange circuit. This is accomplished by bundling a few caps in parallel. I used a large value Sonicap with less expensive Erse caps and of course bypassed with a sonicap gen 2. This can wait for another day but is still recommended as it makes the sound between the mids and tweeters more seamless and cohesive. Vocals become clearer and more natural sounding.

If one wanted to go all out they could replace the chokes with foil types but even Danny says the improvement is minimal.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 03:16 pm »

What they said...

And, treating your room and working with speaker placement might well be just as much of an improvement too.

Remove those old lamp stands. Move the X-Statik's inward and at least another foot out from the wall. Then treat the wall behind the speakers with a combination of absorbing and diffusing material. PI Audio might be able to help you out there. Also, a tube trap in that left corner would really help as well.

skeeter99 · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 05:14 pm »

I would also recommend removing ALL of the grills, front and back on the Statik's and Voce. Those things ring and buzz and hum. Its not a HUGE difference but it is noticeable and FREE

Scott

LarryB · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 05:20 pm »

Steve Stone of the Absolute Sound offered these tweaks for improving the sound of the X-Statiks.

Larry

Chops · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 07:26 pm »

Whoa... Hold on guys.

Imaging and sound staging is just fine with the current locations. Besides, the other speakers are in the best spot for the 2-ch system, and they sound great there.

Danny, those "old" lamps are there to keep the cats off of the speakers. Besides, both of those lamps aren't old, they have very nice LED's in them!

The grills are back on the Statik's and Voce to keep naughty kitty claws off of the cones, surrounds and wires in the back. Not to mention that I have yet to hear the grills rattle or make any kind of sound, nor can I hear any difference with them on or off.

What my main goal is with these is to clean up the treble some. They tend to be just a tad bit fuzzy sounding at times, but not all the time. It might have something to do with the recordings, but I feel they could be a little cleaner, crisper with all recordings. Maybe just upgrading the caps and resistors will do that. It would be nice if the BG Neo 3 tweeters were a direct drop-in replacement. I bet those would make a substantial improvement.

Corndog, when I upgraded the crossovers on the tweeters of those Genesis II speakers in the pic above, I did a cascade bypass to make up the total value as well as upgrading the binding posts and wiring.

This was the original...

corndog71 · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Dec 2011, 08:12 pm »

Nice job. That reminds me of a pair of Klipsch Heresy II speakers I rebuilt. Adding No Rez to those old, unbraced boxes can also help clean up the mids and deepen the bass a bit.

Chops · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Dec 2011, 09:48 pm »

Quote from: corndog71 on 22 Dec 2011, 08:12 pm

Adding No Rez to those old, unbraced boxes can also help clean up the mids and deepen the bass a bit.

Actually, like Harbeth speakers, the Genesis speakers are meant to have a little "life" in the enclosures as it adds to the sound. It's part of the speaker's voicing. There have been threads about people who have added bracing, damping material or have even built all new, very stout enclosures (2"-3" baffles, 1" everywhere else with lots of bracing) while keeping the drivers, air space and crossovers the same, and all of those literally took the life out of the speakers.

As for the X-Statik's, I don't/can't play them loud in the apartment, so messing around with foam and felt on the backs of the drivers, removing the grills, and adding No-Rez to the enclosures is pretty much a waste of time and money for me. However, upgrading crossover components should yield improvements at any volume level.

Speaking of crossover components, I see that Danny and everyone else uses Sonicap's exclusively. Has there been any comparisons made between Sonicap and say Jantzen caps? I used the Z-Standard and Z-Superior caps along with Dayton 1% caps on the Genesis II's with excellent results.

Any thoughts? Danny and anyone else?

Nick77 · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Dec 2011, 11:27 pm »

I compared the Dayton 1% to Sonicap in my B1 buffer and there was no comparison. Sonicap resolution was stunning in comparison, Dayton was muddy.

Rclark · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Dec 2011, 11:38 pm »

Man, that is a great lookin' system and room.

corndog71 · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 Dec 2011, 05:38 am »

I've tried jantzen cross caps and they were ok. They had a bit of warmth similar to Erse caps but still lacked in upper frequency resolution compared to the Sonicaps.

Never tried the 1% Daytons but the standard Dayton caps were terrible. I think even Solens were a step up.

I've also experimented with Clarity Cap ESA series and those were not a good match with the Encore tweeters at all. They had excellent clarity from the mids down but really needed to be matched with a metal tweeter for the highs.

I think Danny voices his designs with sonicaps but he would have to confirm that.

Chops · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Dec 2011, 07:45 pm »

I don't agree on the Dayton's being muddy or the Jantzen's being warm. At least, that's not how they sound on the Genesis speakers. I would say that the overall sound is very detailed, extended and refined.

Keep in mind, I didn't use a super tiny bypass cap like most everyone else does. The Genesis crossover calls for an 11uF cap, so I used a Dayton 1% Precision Audio 6.8uF cap, a Jantzen Z-Standard 2.2uF cap, a Jantzen Z-Superior 1.0uF cap, all of which step up in voltage with decreasing size caps. Maybe because there's "more value" of the better caps making up the total value, the tweeters are getting the better sound from those increasingly better Jantzen caps.

Chops · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Dec 2011, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 23 Dec 2011, 11:38 pm

Man, that is a great lookin' system and room.

Sorry for not mentioning it before, but thank you very much!

Chops · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Dec 2011, 10:34 pm »

Quote from: Danny Richie on 22 Dec 2011, 03:16 pm

Move the X-Statik's inward and at least another foot out from the wall.

I was doing some cleaning up around the house today as well as doing a lot of listening. I decided to try what Danny suggested as far as moving the X-Statik's in closer. I was only able to realistically move them out about 4" from the wall however. Not much I can do in this little apartment. Luckily my girlfriend puts up with my BS. Haha!

I have to admit, moving them to the inside positions made a huge improvement! The soundstage has grown even wider and deeper. It definitely sounds better!

Of course, a few pics...

From my normal P.O.V.

django11 · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Dec 2011, 02:42 pm »

To add discordant note (

), I did the Elite upgrade on my X-LS Encore and liked them less than before ( I'm going to turn them into x-omnis with the stock crossover). And I tried the Platinum bypass caps in my N3s and removed them. In both cases I found the speakers bright and dry for my taste (it might also have something to do with my electronics or the room). Both changes definitely changed the sound and brought out more detail. And a lot of people seem to like the difference so this might well be something you would appreciate.

I also did the No-Rez upgrade on the x-ls. I did it before doing the crossovers and I must say I definitely think it was worth it. It tightened up of the lower end considerably. I agree with you that the No-Rez probably is not a good idea in your older speakers. I have a friend with old Spendors made of 1/2 particleboard (

) with almost no bracing and they have an excellent sound that I wouldn't want to tamper with.

And just to end on a positive note, I love my N3s

...

My two cents...

Chops · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Dec 2011, 06:42 pm »

Quote from: django11 on 26 Dec 2011, 02:42 pm

To add discordant note (), I did the Elite upgrade on my X-LS Encore and liked them less than before ( I'm going to turn them into x-omnis with the stock crossover). And I tried the Platinum bypass caps in my N3s and removed them. In both cases I found the speakers bright and dry for my taste (it might also have something to do with my electronics or the room). Both changes definitely changed the sound and brought out more detail. And a lot of people seem to like the difference so this might well be something you would appreciate.

I also did the No-Rez upgrade on the x-ls. I did it before doing the crossovers and I must say I definitely think it was worth it. It tightened up of the lower end considerably. I agree with you that the No-Rez probably is not a good idea in your older speakers. I have a friend with old Spendors made of 1/2 particleboard ( ) with almost no bracing and they have an excellent sound that I wouldn't want to tamper with.

And just to end on a positive note, I love my N3s ...

My two cents...

That's good to know. It is true that not all "upgrades" are actual improvements. I'm not saying that it's going on here on this thread/site, but a lot of people will do upgrades in hope of it improving the sound when in actuality, it hurts the sound or makes no improvement at all. Those people then lie to themselves as well as to others by making false claims of the "improvements", trying to justify their money and time spent. Not to mention that the results of an upgrade is up to the taste of each person.

Again, for me, I think there is no need for using No-Rez since my speakers are all crossed over at 80Hz and I don't play them loud enough to get any excitement out of the bass enclosures.

One thing I have been considering however is the use of either felt or foam around the tweeters. Possibly thick enough to where it completely fills the gap between the baffle and grill, effectively dampening the grill a little as well. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

django11 · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 Dec 2011, 09:12 pm »

Just to reiterate, I was saying that the change was not to my liking and not commenting on whether or not changing the components in the crossovers was an "upgrade" in absolute terms.

That being said, there was a definite change in the sound of the speakers after the upgrade. I don't want to be a party pooper, I just wanted to point out that it is possible that you will not like the change. On the other hand, you may love it

. And I might have some kind of sensitivity to higher frequencies. I got rid of my previous speakers because I found them bright.