Class D amplifiers versus tube and solid state

sonicxtc · « **on:** 11 Dec 2011, 07:33 pm »

Hi Everyone,

I am seriously considering making a move from tube amplifiers to class D amps. I've been doing some reading which suggests they can actually perform on a par with serious tube and solid state gear. I welcome some input, direction and opinions on the best class D amplification and comments about the merits of class D versus other types of amps. Mentions of specific gear would be great. Also, will class D amps mate well with a tube pre-amplifier. Will it give you a bit of the "best of both worlds," like tube pre and solid state amps?

Thank you.

afranta · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 04:55 pm »

PS Audio power amps were specifically designed to mate well with tube preamps. I can't comment on the match--haven't heard it--but I had a Trio A100, and it's a very nice little amp.

NeilT · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 06:07 pm »

PM sent

Bill Baker · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 07:18 pm »

Tube preamps and Class D amps are a match made in heaven in my opinion. The one thing you need to keep a look out for is the input impedance of the amp versus the output impedance of the preamp. There are many Class D amps that have a very low (by industry standards) input impedance. Some as low as 5k-7k. If you go this route, just be sure your preamp has a very low output impedance of at least 500 ohms. The lower the better.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 07:40 pm »

Bill,

Any Class D amps you are particularly a fan of? Thinking about pulling the trigger on some SP Minis and wondering about this pairing...

Bill Baker · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 07:54 pm »

That would depend on you budget. The other thing you want to look at with Class D amps, usually the inexpensive ones, it what kind of load they can handle. Watch the specs as some are only comfortable with 8 ohm loads and even then they won't provide the dynamics you would want. There are a few good ones out there at various price points.
What preamp will you be using with this system?

David C · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 08:04 pm »

I have been very happy with my Nuforce 9V3SE mono amps. I use a Nuforce P9 pre amp and have introduced tubes by using an EE mini DAC with PMC PB1i speakers it sounds great

David

rollo · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: Bill Baker on 12 Dec 2011, 07:18 pm

Tube preamps and Class D amps are a match made in heaven in my opinion. The one thing you need to keep a look out for is the input impedance of the amp versus the output impedance of the preamp. There are many Class D amps that have a very low (by industry standards) input impedance. Some as low as 5k-7k. If you go this route, just be sure your preamp has a very low output impedance of at least 500 ohms. The lower the better.

Excellent advice Bill. Agree 100%. The Arion Hybrid clas D amps may be worth looking into. They use a 6h30 tube.
Not inexpensive but they drove the heck out Analysis ribbon speakers. The Cherry Amps as well should be condidered. If ya want bang , no make that boom for the buck check out Berhinger gear. Berhinger will suprise you. Not an authorized dealer of Arion, Cherry or Berhinger.

charles
SMA.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Dec 2011, 08:22 pm »

I have a hybrid Musical Fidelity kW preamp which has 6112 tubes. It is currently driving an Atma-sphere S-30, but I am not sure that the S-30 would be a great fit with the SP Minis. And my thought was that I could sell the Atma to help offset the Mini's cost and get a sub $1000 Class D amp (or even one of the Class D kits) to drive the Minis.

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Jan 2012, 07:02 pm »

I am currently running tubes and thinking of changing power amps as well. My concern was not to lose the musicality I currently enjoy. after reading the review of the Channel Island D200 mkII I was seriously thinking of giving them a shot. I still might if the amp I ordered doesn't do the trick but I went with a more traditional hybrid. I haven't received it yet and have return options, so nothing is in stone.

I do use a Linn Class V 5-channel amp for HT and love it. 125x5 and weighs a whopping 11 lbs. I've used it to drive Dynaudio Contour and Revel Performas and it did the job very well considering it's power rating, I've never noticed any strain or clipping. I also love that it runs cool. I have it in a cabinet and haven't seen it since it was hooked up

firedog · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Jan 2012, 07:40 pm »

I have a classDaudio power amp. Sounds great with tubes in front of it. The model I have will drive any load from 2-8 ohm (not all will).

They will custom make a configuration to meet your needs. I don't know how they stack up against the very best amps out there, but they are as good or better than anything within several times of their price, for same power and features.

mikeeastman · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Jan 2012, 07:47 pm »

I also have a classDaudio amp that I'm using with Dodd tube buffer to drive a set of GR research OB 7s. Sounds great to me.

Æ · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Jan 2012, 07:59 pm »

Quote from: sonicxtc on 11 Dec 2011, 07:33 pm

Hi Everyone,

I am seriously considering making a move from tube amplifiers to class D amps. I've been doing some reading which suggests they can actually perform on a par with serious tube and solid state gear. I welcome some input, direction and opinions on the best class D amplification and comments about the merits of class D versus other types of amps. Mentions of specific gear would be great. Also, will class D amps mate well with a tube pre-amplifier. Will it give you a bit of the "best of both worlds," like tube pre and solid state amps?

Thank you.

I think you are over generalizing it. Certainly if there are poor or bad tube amps and poor or bad solid state amps, then it only makes sense that Class D could be that way.
Anyway, isn't Class D solid state too? It all comes down to implementation.

GT Audio Works · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 May 2013, 02:02 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 12 Dec 2011, 08:14 pm

Excellent advice Bill. Agree 100%. The Arion Hybrid clas D amps may be worth looking into. They use a 6h30 tube.
Not inexpensive but they drove the heck out Analysis ribbon speakers. The Cherry Amps as well should be condidered. If ya want bang , no make that boom for the buck check out Berhinger gear. Berhinger will suprise you. Not an authorized dealer of Arion, Cherry or Berhinger.

charles
SMA.

After spending a good amount of time listening to the Arion amps mated with a Dodd preamp and Triode wire cords and speaker wire I agree they make a match made in heaven.
They present the recording venue as it was recorded....studio recording with reverb natural or artificial...all there with the decay down to the noise floor. Live recordings ??? You can "feel" the room,, outstanding !
Power, clarity, pitch definition, speed, low distortion they do it all.
I heard a track by Shirley horn I know well. I almost didn't recognize it as the same track...I heard emotion I never heard on my tube / solid state rig.

bunky · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 May 2013, 02:26 pm »

I am also curious about class D so to test the waters so I just ordered a Rogue Audio Sphinx integrated amp with a 12AU7 preamp in the front end. l should get it on monday or Tuesday and I will put it in my system and see what happens

ricardojoa · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 May 2013, 02:31 pm »

Check out wyred4sound, great reviews. Input impedance are high in terms of SS, sp the pair nice with tube front.

RichardS · « **Reply #16 on:** 4 May 2013, 05:30 pm »

Not sure of your price range, but another avenue to consider is a (true) digital amp, i.e., with a digital input, along the lines of Tact, Lyngdorf, Wadia, NAD, etc. They won't give you the warmth of tubes, but bring their own set of virtues to the table (keeping the signal in the digital domain all the way to the speakers). I've previously owned other Class D amps, such as PS Audio and several Bel Cantos, and SS from Pass and Rowland, but the NAD M2 and the Tact (esp w/ mods) really float my boat.

I recently replaced a very nice Aloia amp with the NAD, to drive some Peak Consult speakers. The sound opened up with greater clarity, dynamics and bigger soundstage, and better control of the bass. It may seem expensive at $6K, but when you consider it's replacing a DAC, preamp and amp and all the associated signal and power cables, it's actually a very good deal.

Stock, the (older technology) Tact amps don't quite measure up to the NAD, especially in the highs, but once modified (I have both) these are really good (you sometimes see them used). To my taste, valuing openness, palpability and a smooth clarity, a previous set up with tubed Audiologic DAC and either Gamut amp or Bel Canto monos was no competition to the modded Tact. These also come in models with room correction, which I believe is partly responsible for their unique openness. Lyngdorf uses similar technology.

Other (more conventional) Class D which interests me personally are the Cherry and NCores (which I've heard) and the Auralic, Acoustic Imagery and Merrill, the upcoming PS Audio, and the digital input Wadia Intuition series Innovation (haven't heard). The Hegel H300 (not digital ) integrated w/ DAC also is of interest. All-in-one units make it more difficult to alter the sound to taste with cables and tubes, etc., but they can often maximize transparency and cost-effectiveness.

audiogoober · « **Reply #17 on:** 4 May 2013, 05:39 pm »

I've auditioned Henry Ho's H2O M250SE ICE monoblocks with a quality tube preamp and can attest they are very very good class D amps. Cool running, extremely powerful with jaw dropping bass qualities.

Henry's a great guy... no affiliation.

bluemike · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 May 2013, 07:11 pm »

I'm doing something similar I have an integrated chip amp/tube pre stage in two boxes

The best of both worlds imo

Mr Peabody · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 May 2013, 07:21 pm »

A friend of mine tried the Class D, I think 440, it was 200x2, he uses a NuForce preamp, he found the sound too bright or fatiguing. I tried his amp in my second system using a Audio by Van Alstine hybrid preamp which is quite smooth, I also found the Class D on the edgy side. I have other friends who mate the Class D with tubes and seem to have good results with it, but I'm thinking if so the gear must be more on the warm side. I also should say the 440 was between $600.00 & $700.00 and if that was my budget the Class D would be at the top of the list, the sound overall surpasses that price range and I'm sure the brightness could be tamed with careful matching of associated gear, hence the mentioned tube gear, or forgiving speakers, or, cables.

I agree with the poster who says it's not so much the technology as the application, there's good and bad, or a better way, those that will appeal or not, in each technology. Also, you absolutely cannot disregard synergy with the associated gear in the system.

My last post was some time ago on this thread, I finally settled in with a Pass Labs X250, solid state but as musical as almost anything I've had. The Conrad Johnson tube monoblocks were probably the champ but the Pass is close but brings more transparency and control, to be brief.