Nikon DSLR body and lens - low light options - perfect travel camera

viggen · « **on:** 6 Dec 2011, 12:29 am »

Hi:

I prefer night time over day time shooting.

Let me digress a bit. A few years ago, my combo was D80 with 50mm 1.8. I then upgraded to D90 with 17-55mm 2.8. I actually like the D80 with 50mm 1.8 better in terms of absolute picture quality. 50mm, I think, is a sharper lens than the 17-55mm and produces what I think are more lifelike images.

Anyways, I "upgraded" to more expensive equipment because 50mm on a 1.5x crop body is just too narrow. I splurged on the 17-55mm 2.8. The D90, with its higher ISO, compensate for the 17-55mm's smaller aperture but not ideally. So, that's the compromise I've been living with for the last couple of years, wider angle and slightly worse low light capability but get flatter/more lifeless images in return.

Going on a trip through Europe next year and am already trying to pick a camera to take with. Fuji X100 seemed to been the candidate. I love the way it looks just like my wife's old Nikon 1970s SLR. It's got a wide angle and large aperture lens, so that's great for taking pics of the city at night. However, after reviewing images taken by this camera on da web, I find them flat. Maybe the glass is a bit inadequate.

Decided to purchase a smaller prime lens to go on the D90, I recently ordered a Sigma 30mm 1.4 from Amz. I haven't received it yet. The 30mm might or might not be wide enough for me though. I think a 35mm/35mm equivalent is what I am looking for. But, now I am playing with the idea of repurchasing the D80. I think, with the 1.4 lens, I can get away with the lower ISO on the D80?

Trying to describe the differences between the PQ of the D90's vs the D80's, I think the D80's images just looks more analog. Although, I have to admit, at the same time, the D80 takes a lot more crappy pics. I had to spend more time playing with the settings and more pics ended up blurry when shooting hand held. I ended up deleting maybe 80% of the pics I took on the D80 compared to about 40% on the D90. The ones I did keep on the D80 are the ones I relish.

So, I want more light (going thru the lens), more lifelike images but want small portable, wide angle at the same time. I know I am asking for a lot.

My perfect camera, I digress again, would have a full frame sensor built into a Sony NEX5ish body with a fixed 35mm 1.4 lens. It will have nothing but 2 knobs on the body, one each for shutter and iso and 2 dials on the lens for aperture and focus.

Early B. · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 01:00 am »

You'll come much closer to getting what you want by upgrading your body to a Nikon D7000. It has exceptional low light capabilities, almost on par with the coveted D700. With a 1.4 or 1.8 lens, you can shoot in situations where it's so dark that you can't see the subject, but the camera can "see" it. I used to own the D7000 with the 17-55mm lens, and the first time I shot with that combo, I was astonished by what the camera could do in low light situations.

Jon L · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 02:03 am »

Quote from: viggen on 6 Dec 2011, 12:29 am

My perfect camera, I digress again, would have a full frame sensor built into a Sony NEX5ish body with a fixed 35mm 1.4 lens. It will have nothing but 2 knobs on the body, one each for shutter and iso and 2 dials on the lens for aperture and focus.

I too long for such a camera, hopefully without the asymmetrically large lens like NEX. It should also have advanced (small) in-body image stabilization to enable smaller lenses and improve hand-holdability in the dark.

One of the major companies should be able to come up with such an animal, e.g. Canon, Nikon, Sony, even Fuji. But judging by Nikon's recent "One series" disaster, I fear most do not want to introduce such an animal that will eat into their larger DSLR sales..

gary · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 02:40 am »

I have a D90, and I've bought two D7000's for work. I drool over them every time I use them, they are so dramatically better than my D90 in just about every way.

For lenses, I like the 18-105mm VR lens that came with my D90 quite a bit, it's a nice balance between zoom and optical quality. Vastly better than the kit 18-55mm lenses IMO. My default lens is a AF-S DX 35mm, which is much sharper than the 18-105mm. That lens on the D7000 would make a fantastic combo.

gary

viggen · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 04:19 am »

Thanks for the feedback guys. D7000 was only in my peripheral. Now, you guys got me excited about it. Really was trying to downsize because I want a travel camera and everywhere I read is don't bring an expensive camera to Europe... But, I don't go there often and want to take great pics while I am there.

Today, I received a Manfrotto 678 monopod to tripod adapter for my Manfroto 680b monopod and took a few long exposure pics in the living room with the camera on the new "tripod". The 17-55mm 2.8 actually produced sharper images at a slower shutter speed than the 50mm 1.8 at a faster shutter speed. So, as Early B eluded, D7000 and 17-55mm lens could be an amazing combo. However, we're talking about a huge and heavy lens on a huge and heavy body... maybe I should just get the X100... I asked a friend to send me some hi res image files he took with his X100 and see how well they improve in photoshop.

low.pfile · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 05:22 am »

viggen, my road sounds very similar to yours, though I may not be as accomplished a photographer as you.

I had a D80 and tried to take photos of friend performing at DuNord, with a 50/1.4. this is a dark dark music venue with terrible lighting. I was lucky to get a couple of decent shots at ISO1600. Wanting to take more photos in similar environments I bit the bullet and got a D700. Whoa! I mean WHOA! that thing makes light. after a couple of years carrying that around to parties and shows (you can bring DSLRs in a couple of bar type venues in SF), I stopped doing it. it's heavy. I am not shooting for anyone and it gets in the way. And secondly as I continue to try to shoot street shots the D700 is just not stealth enough.

I think the X100 is awesome, I haven't shot with it myself but when I see the stuff that Jonathan does with it shows it is an amazing device. My issues with it is the single focal length. though 35mm is my favorite focal length, when travelling it would seem too constraining. And it's a pricey option. which leads me to what I picked up for my Italy bike trip. it was the perfect camera to have hanging on my harness while riding for 7 days. I have the GF2. While decent in low light it is no D700/D7000. so n the micro four thirds land that wins for travel. but I primarily used the 20mm lens for size and weight but often that 40mm FOV was not wide enough--but I made do. there is a newer sensor going into the Lumix line GX1 (not available yet) but should have a little better low light capability. Downside of microfourthirds: investing in another lens system. It was not available for my Italy trip but I see that the Oly P3-- its low light shots are usually much cleaner than the Panny GF line...Oh well. And local photographer Jonathan has been using an X100 with amazing results, so I thought of sharing the link as I read about your consideration of the X100 http://jonathanfleming.wordpress.com/ well, low and behold, he is shooting in very low light environments with the X100 in his most recent entry. look through his blogs he has some wonderful images with all of his cameras.

So my next move was to leverage my nikon lenses with a smaller body--the D5100 is where I landed. It is tiny compared to the D700, but 2x the size of the GF2. I find it small enough to be stealth enough for street photos. The slight downside of the D5100 it does not have an internal focusing motor, so when I use my AF-D lenses I have to manually focus (I have been pre-focusing for street anyway) so with my used 20mm lens I am small and getting a 30mm-ish FOV which I like. but I can put on any AF-S lens and get full AF, of course.

Coincidentally I am away on business (CO) and did I bring my D5100? nope. I packed the GF2 with 14-45 and the 20mm, in my backpack. I will only get to shoot at night anyway--if at all. I will try to bring it on a vacation sometime but I will want a very small kit. very small. I'd hesitate bringing a D7000, D300 sized body on a regular vacation unless it was photo specific, which I've never done personally.

So far, I've found that D5100 is about 1 and half stops slower than the D700. sorta put it this way (no testing what so ever)...

D700 ISO 6400 Very good-Exc images my samples [one, two]
D5100 ISO 2500-3200 = V Good image (IIRC...D5100 and D7000 have the same sensor) I don't have any 5100 pics posted on the web to reference
GF2 ISO 1600 = Decent to Good images my samples [one, two]
BTW: click on the camera name at top right for the ISO info.

Lastly, while I personally do not mind noise (I am not doing stock photography) I found Lightroom 3 very good in cleaning up the GF2 RAW images in the noise area. it was the rationale for the LR3 purchase.

Early B. · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 05:31 am »

Quote from: viggen on 6 Dec 2011, 04:19 am

Thanks for the feedback guys. D7000 was only in my peripheral. Now, you guys got me excited about it. Really was trying to downsize because I want a travel camera and everywhere I read is don't bring an expensive camera to Europe... But, I don't go there often and want to take great pics while I am there.

So, as Early B eluded, D7000 and 17-55mm lens could be an amazing combo. However, we're talking about a huge and heavy lens on a huge and heavy body...

If you want the best images, then you need the best gear, and the best gear isn't compact size. If you enjoy photography, then get what you need. Downsizing will only frustrate you.

tabrink · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 06:05 am »

I went through your pain!
Bought a D3s .. finest DSLR on the planet with 18mm, 50mm and 135mm primes.
Case closed
Sold both of my D3x.
Man this stuff is easy!

low.pfile · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 06:10 am »

Quote from: tabrink on 6 Dec 2011, 06:05 am

I went through your pain!
Bought a D3s .. finest DSLR on the planet with 18mm, 50mm and 135mm primes.
Case closed
Sold both of my D3x.
Man this stuff is easy!

amazing camera of course tabrink. but is that the camera you bring on vacation with you? If so, how do you carry it? It seems to me that the OP, viggen, wants to downsize from a D90!

tabrink · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 06:20 am »

Yup
Compromises feel like compromises.
Small cameras are just too slow and comprising!
Please call me weird! Me having two systems would cut into my ability to shoot primes.
Of course that is just this stupid dude.
I am not anybody as as smart as you.
If he wants to downsize get a 4/3 and live with a stupid amount of noise. and less than a acceptably printable images.
But again as you pointed out I am stupid. you have got to feel better for busting my chops you manly veteran who has a history of being a bully. yup yours is bigger.
Have a great week.
Thanks for looking
Tom

Zero · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 11:23 am »

Edited out because I realized my suggestion was stoo-pid. Good luck in the hunt!

viggen · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 05:07 pm »

Thanks for the additional feedback.

I don't think I will be considering any MFT or the D5100. MFT has a smaller sensor and, consequently, a larger focal length multiplier. So, I'd be forced to buy a wide angle high aperture lens that will cost but will not yield as good as PQ as a DSLR. I like it's size and flexibility as well as its good assortment of lenses. In fact, I like the picture quality of Panasonic/Zeiss cameras I've had in the past. But, I think technology wise, I'd rather go with the X100 instead of a MFT. It's got a larger sensor and seems to do better with night shooting and has a wide angle lens to boot. Plus, I love its industrial design and build quality. And, I think I will pass on the D5100 because, as far as I know, it's harder to adjust A/S/ISO on the fly. It is impressive that it's sensor is the same one in the D7000 though.

Yes, if I go with with a smaller camera, I will compromise picture quality. But, I have to consider theft and mobility as well. Chugging around $3k worth of full size dslr equipment will probably increase my chances of getting robbed. I don't think weight will be a major factor as I lug around my D90/17-55mm on my other travels without too much effort. But, I would worry about where I place my camera bag say when I am taking lunch somewhere. I'd be on constant vigil hence have harder time relaxing during my vacation.

I think I will order a X100 and do a shoot out between it and the Nikon with various lenses.

Travel aside, I am very intrigued with the D7000. The positives are obvious. The negatives are price, the number of occasions I use the DSLR is diminishing, and I don't know whether the D7000's pq is more "analog" than the D90s. Night shooting will probably be insane with a D5100 or D7000 with the Sigma 30mm 1.4...

BTW, I have a few pics in my gallery that I took with my D80 with 50mm 1.8 handheld. Those are the type of photos I like to take.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1691

charmerci · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Dec 2011, 11:51 pm »

I really wouldn't worry about theft in Europe - outside of leaving stuff unattended or giving someone the opportunity of plucking something out of a bag, etc. Oh yeah, and watch out for the gypsy beggars that come up to you. This is a big city warning.

Anyway, I've never had a problem taking night photos in the tourist areas, Paris mainly.

gary · « **Reply #13 on:** 7 Dec 2011, 02:42 am »

Shit. I shouldn't have read reviews on the X100, now I want it.

gary

JohnR · « **Reply #14 on:** 7 Dec 2011, 02:49 am »

Hah hah, yeah me too

low.pfile · « **Reply #15 on:** 7 Dec 2011, 02:53 am »

me three guys! but I won't do it. just got an email from a friend who wants to go out for a photo walk, I'll make sure he brings his X100, so I get to try it. he has a D200 as well.

sounds like a plan Viggen, get it and try it, see it it works for you as far as analog look.

good luck

viggen · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 08:41 pm »

Picked up the Sigma 30mm 1.4 this morning. Took a few shots. Mixed feelings about it so far. Very sharp at 5.6 (top) but front focusing becomes apparent at 1.4 (bottom). The bottom pics has the remote control more in focus than the subject... not nice.

low.pfile · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Dec 2011, 09:06 pm »

viggen, if you already don't your own method of testing, I recommend this easy process. http://photo.net/learn/focustest/

A few years ago I tried the Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens that had front focus issues and returned it. though I had their 10-20mm and it was fine. so you can either trade it for another or use the lens AF fine tune feature on most more advanced Nikon models.

viggen · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 06:10 am »

Quote from: low.pfile on 10 Dec 2011, 09:06 pm

viggen, if you already don't your own method of testing, I recommend this easy process. http://photo.net/learn/focustest/

A few years ago I tried the Sigma 30mm 1.4 lens that had front focus issues and returned it. though I had their 10-20mm and it was fine. so you can either trade it for another or use the lens AF fine tune feature on most more advanced Nikon models.

I think I will just return the 30mm. I did some test shots today and, overall, am not too impressed with the Sigma.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 07:11 am »

Quote from: viggen on 10 Dec 2011, 08:41 pm

Picked up the Sigma 30mm 1.4 this morning. Took a few shots. Mixed feelings about it so far.

From what I've seen, that is a very capable lens - right from f1.4 on up.

Plenty of samples scattered throughout this thread... http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/149865-sigma-30mm-f-1-4-thoughts-examples.html