[marrduk24]

Rick et al,

For over an year now I have had an eye on getting a floorstander with RAAL ribbon. Rick not sure if you remember I had even contacted you regarding this once. Since I am not yet ready to pull the trigger, I didn't want to send you a personal mail and thought would post on this forum.

I was wondering what do people feel is the best match for RAAL ribbon - ideally a 7" mid-bass. From designs that I have reviewed by Rick, Jim Salk and Jed at clearwave, it seems 3 drivers are popular

1. Seas excel
2. Scanspeak revelator/ illuminator
3. Accuton

Not sure if Jed uses Accuton neos, which are almost $900 a piece.

Anyway would love to hear people's thoughts.

[pslate]

It all depends on who is designing the crossover  Just a note on AC etiquette, when referencing multiple AC vendors in a single post, the general audio section is best. It can sometimes be a contentious area. If you look at Verita and Tempesta you can see what Rick likes. More performance at a greater cost for the Tempesta, but the Verita is no slouch. Rick is able to cross the aluminum illuminator low using the OEM RAAL, it's a great combo, but a tricky implementation too. A reason to look at the illuminator 7" is the ability for good sound when driven hard, lot's of bass.

[ricardojoa]

i believe the verita uses the raal 70-20xr, and to most of rick 2 way design. Now i wonder if that particular driver would be superior to the 70-10d.
Now one thing that i notice is diffrent with Rick desing, is that the high frequency extension only goes up to 20HZ for-3db, im not sure if that has to do with the measurement equipment used. Most other designber who uses Raal, have much extended HF, regarless weather human would be able to hear or not.

[jtwrace]

Most other designber who uses Raal, have much extended HF, regarless weather human would be able to hear or not.

If you can't hear it (which you can't) what difference does it make?

[ricardojoa]

Well i guess i may not hear 20HZ, that doesnt necessary means that there wouldnt be a different in a speaker design. Why woldl raal make there tweeters extend all the way then?  I just wanted to know though.

[rklein]

I am changing out the SS AirCirc tweeters in my Selah TRT floorstanders to the Raal 70-20XR ribbon tweeters.  The TRT model is a 2.5 way speaker which utilizes a SS 18W4531G for the upper woofer and the SS 18W8531G for the lower woofer.

I was finally able to box up the upper woofer and all the crossovers and ship them off to Rick so that he can make the necessary changes to the crossovers with the Raals.  I will be offering my humble opinion on the above combination after living with the "new" TRT's for a while.

Regards,

Randy

[jonbee]

1. Seas excel
2. Scanspeak revelator/ illuminator
3. Accuton

I've owned speakers with the 7" Excel, the Revelator, and the Tempesta, which has the Illuminator.  All of them are remarkable, but very different sounding. To me, the Illuminator has the deepest bass, but more importantly, the fastest, cleanest, flattest midrange. If you're matching to the RAAL, that is critical.
Needless to say, the implementation and crossover is a major determinant, but to me, the Revelator sounds a bit soft dynamically, the Excel a bit squawky and uneven on the top. The aluminum Illuminator seems just right. The fact that it integrates with the amazingly fast Accuton 2" mid without any seam says a lot.
I've not heard the Verita, but I think it should be an excellent sounding 2 way.
I've not heard the 7" Accuton.
And of course Rick knows more about the sound of any of these far better than any of us amateurs.

[Rick Craig]

Rick et al,

For over an year now I have had an eye on getting a floorstander with RAAL ribbon. Rick not sure if you remember I had even contacted you regarding this once. Since I am not yet ready to pull the trigger, I didn't want to send you a personal mail and thought would post on this forum.

I was wondering what do people feel is the best match for RAAL ribbon - ideally a 7" mid-bass. From designs that I have reviewed by Rick, Jim Salk and Jed at clearwave, it seems 3 drivers are popular

1. Seas excel
2. Scanspeak revelator/ illuminator
3. Accuton

Not sure if Jed uses Accuton neos, which are almost $900 a piece.

Anyway would love to hear people's thoughts.

I've used all of them and I prefer the Illuminator (both paper and metal cone versions). Part of the Illuminator's advantage is the motor and suspension design. This allows it to have a greater linear excursion and maintain low inductance over the entire excursion. The Seas and Accuton drivers are good but the technology in the Illuminator gives it the edge. The neo version of the Accuton is better suited to a 3-way for midrange duty.

[marrduk24]

Rick,

what size cabinet does Verita ported version come in?

Also if I were to get RAAL 70-20XR with a pair of illuminator 7" instead of a single 7", approximately how large of a cabinet are we looking at? I know you have done 100s of variations with RAAL but was wondering if you have heard this design live and can comment on it.

[marrduk24]

Rick,

I just realized that you did recently do Tempesta Xtreme which had two 7" illumunator and RAAL but instead of 2 way was a 3 way with an Accuton mid.

Would you recommend a two way ?

[Rick Craig]

Rick,

what size cabinet does Verita ported version come in?

Also if I were to get RAAL 70-20XR with a pair of illuminator 7" instead of a single 7", approximately how large of a cabinet are we looking at? I know you have done 100s of variations with RAAL but was wondering if you have heard this design live and can comment on it.

22"x9"x14.5" for the ported cabinet. A second woofer doubles the cabinet size.

[Rick Craig]

Rick,

I just realized that you did recently do Tempesta Xtreme which had two 7" illumunator and RAAL but instead of 2 way was a 3 way with an Accuton mid.

Would you recommend a two way ?

It really depends on your budget. All things being equal a 3-way will always have some advantages over a 2-way.

[Rick Craig]

i believe the verita uses the raal 70-20xr, and to most of rick 2 way design. Now i wonder if that particular driver would be superior to the 70-10d.
Now one thing that i notice is diffrent with Rick desing, is that the high frequency extension only goes up to 20HZ for-3db, im not sure if that has to do with the measurement equipment used. Most other designber who uses Raal, have much extended HF, regarless weather human would be able to hear or not.

No, the 70-20XR isn't superior to the 70-10D, simply different in how it can be used. The 70-10D actually has one advantage, maybe two depending on how particular you are about off-axis response.

20hz-20K measurements are standard in the industry. Quoting response above 20K is really just playing a numbers game and something I'm not interested in. It also takes expensive and highly calibrated equipment to measure accurately well over 20K. I seriously doubt some of the companies quoting these numbers have the resources on hand to make these claims. The driver manufacturers can often measure this and it makes sense if they're selling to clients that have needs beyond home audio such as a research lab.

[ricardojoa]

Thank for the input Rick

[ricardojoa]

Rick, based on jonbee review of his tempesta and soundstage for the verita, it seems that the raal you tune, lean on the laid back side. Would it be possible to have the upper end tune differently?

[kip_]

Rick, based on jonbee review of his tempesta and soundstage for the verita, it seems that the raal you tune, lean on the laid back side. Would it be possible to have the upper end tune differently?

He tried this with the Verita pair that went to Audioholics and it wasn't very well received there. Maybe you should look at other tweeters like the Scanspeak Be or AirCirc?

[face]

He tried this with the Verita pair that went to Audioholics and it wasn't very well received there. Maybe you should look at other tweeters like the Scanspeak Be or AirCirc?

I'd take anything said there with a grain of salt.

[kip_]

I'd take anything said there with a grain of salt.

It was members of their forum, not the staff that reviewed it.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/754352-post95.html

[Rick Craig]

Rick, based on jonbee review of his tempesta and soundstage for the verita, it seems that the raal you tune, lean on the laid back side. Would it be possible to have the upper end tune differently?

One of the advantages we have over most speaker manufacturers is that we can voice the speaker to suit the customer's preference.

[pslate]

I own the pair from the GTG. They are awesome. The review group mentioned a bias against ribbons. Hooked up to an SDS-254 right now, soooo sweet. Best amp in the system yet.