[fivestring]

Hi everyone,

Just recently, I have witnessed the greatest sound transformation at Berni`s home. He`s too shy to report the results so I`m breaking the ice. The stands that he developed are incredibly sturdy and well made, the sound contribution is just enormous. The weight and power in the lower midrange and upper bass is way above of the non-reinforced Maggie, the whole thing is just amazing!

His room is 19.6 by 26 feet that is extending into the kitchen on one side and into stairways on the other side.

Comparing the original and stands reinforced version, there is literally a huge difference. All frequencies below 500 Hz or so, gained in weight, solidity, power and dynamics enormously.

His system:

- Olive 4hd

- Eselab ANU CURRENT DOMAIN PREAMPLIFIER (a great Slovenian preamp)

- MC2 audio MC1250 AB class solid state power amp (2x750 watts/8 ohms)

If I may, I would also like to mention something else.

- we started to listen with the speakers positioned 5 feet from the back wall, but the sound had too much reflections, so we moved them to 7,5 feet, that the theory predicts as minimum for the dipoles to sound correct.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/bas/0508/

Well, indeed the sound improved a lot but then....

I asked him if I can sit on his rack where all of his electronics were located and listen from the reverse position... baaaam! - the most astonishing sound transformation towards live concert feeling that you can imagine! In this reverse position, the wall behind the speakers was about 22 feet behind them.

It was like in front of the stage of a live jazz performance and orchestral music was simply so realistic that I almost forgot to breathe! The choir that performed Carmina Burana was the most lifelike that I have ever experienced.

Solo singers were standing in the stage, their mouth wasn`t over sized, they just sounded like they would in a live concert.

When you experience big planar speakers under such conditions, you simply cannot believe what you`re missing in an average sized rooms, with speakers relatively close to the back walls - it`s a completely different story.
With the back wall so far behind, the reflections from it become harmless and the sound becomes much more  clear, transparent and unsaturated.

I really wish I had a room like Berni does...

Yes, planar dipoles a picky in regard to the placement, but give them what they need and you will forget everything else.

[rollo]

  Nice read. Could not agree more about keeping them away from the rear wall. Actually in our experience kinda works for all speakers [ not limited bass types]
  The soundstage created fools one closer to the real deal. When we relocated our Pipedreams away from the rear wall using the front third of the room instead of the middle third the difference was staggering. Just make sure ones final seating position is at least 2 feet away from the rear wall. Deadening the rear helps big time in this set up.
   BTW the stands look well executed. ENJOY!!!!!


charles
SMA

[SteveFord]

He finally built them - they look great!

[rw@cn]

Those are indeed classy. I'm jealous. 

[berni]

Thanks!
I was hoping to get a small improvement, but I never thought it will turn out so huge. Almost a new speaker in the room.
The only downsize is the fact that my 15 months old boy is now using the xover box as a seat. I don't know why he didn' used it before?? Maybe he was aware of the fact that the original won't take his weight.

[rollo]

 SOO are you going to tell us how to make them ??


charles
SMA

[berni]

They are made out of 10mm thick solid aluminium, milled, brushed and then black anodized. So there is no magnetic interference.
The most important is the T shaped column(left and right side of the speaker) , with  2,5 inches it gives a lot of stiffnes in the right direction. It is  made out of two pieces which are grooved, so they slide into each other and are screwed together with 6 bolts from the back.
The feet are also screwed from underneath and also have a little groove to assure a tight and strong fit.
All the holes are made exactly to fit the original screws that hold the frame(wood screws), the one for the original feet and the one for the handle. Also this assures a clean and fast installation.
Both of the columns are mounted separetly because of the fact that you must unscrew most of the screws holding the frame. After both are mounted the x-over plate is holding everything together and giving a good support for the x-over.

[Elizabeth]

Any plan to market the stand?

I have plans to buy some 20.1s next year.. your stands would be really nice addition...
hint...

[rollo]

They are made out of 10mm thick solid aluminium, milled, brushed and then black anodized. So there is no magnetic interference.
The most important is the T shaped column(left and right side of the speaker) , with his 2,5 inches it gives a lot of stiffnes in the right direction. It is  made out of two pieces which are grooved, so they slide into each other and are screwed together with 6 bolts from the back.
The feet are also screwed from underneath and also have a little groove to assure a tight and strong fit.
All the holes are made exactly to fit the original screws that hold the frame(wood screws), the one for the original feet and the one for the handle. Also this assures a clean and fast installation.
Both of the columns are mounted separetly because of the fact that you must unscrew most of the screws holding the frame. After both are mounted the x-over plate is holding everything together and giving a good support for the x-over.

  Well no home project. Sounds  like a machine shop did the work. Guess not an inexpensive venture.



charles
SMA

[josh358]

Beautiful stands!

What I've heard is that planars like to be 15' out from the wall. Beyond that, there's apparently no increase in depth. But I've never been able to try it myself, since I've never had a big enough room. I'm guessing that the reason for this (if true) is that it's the point at which the first reflection from the front wall stops masking the first reflection from the wall at the back of the concert stage. Diffusion at the first reflection points may be able to help in a room that doesn't allow that kind of positioning.

[Rclark]

More pics please!

[SteveFord]

I can vouch for the further out the better the sound.
The 1.7s are 6' from the rear wall, the wife looked dispelased when I pulled the 3.7s further out than 4 foot. 
I can see her point as they do tend to dominate a room - maybe if they offered them in a nice floral print with some doilies to cover the feet, ha, ha.

More pics, please!  Those are the nicest stands I've ever seen.

[Phil A]

Great job on the stands!!

[berni]

Beautiful stands!

What I've heard is that planars like to be 15' out from the wall. Beyond that, there's apparently no increase in depth. But I've never been able to try it myself, since I've never had a big enough room. I'm guessing that the reason for this (if true) is that it's the point at which the first reflection from the front wall stops masking the first reflection from the wall at the back of the concert stage. Diffusion at the first reflection points may be able to help in a room that doesn't allow that kind of positioning.

Diffusion will help , but you will still get a large amount of reflection which will interact with the sound. In this opposite HongKong positioning you get a free and large sound behind the speakers which comes back reflected very late and is not harming  the overall sound so much. Also the back reflection are being reduced as they are near your ears and seem to be almost identical with the  direct sound. You get a good feeling of the concert hall or  the place where the recording has been made.
I'm  in metal working(mostly sheetmetal) so making this stands is not hard. Yes, you need some good machines , but the effort pays off with the sound you get.
Of course you could simplify them. Not milled they could be only lasercut or waterjet cut, but then you lose the fine touch on the edges.
If someone is interested, I can send him the drawing with measurements and positions of the holes.
  If I decide something to be made, then the product must be  much better then the original and must be build, looking and working better then the orignal. Of course they must be well made, everything less is not worth of 20.1 speakers.

[josh358]

The 1.7s are 6' from the rear wall, the wife looked dispelased when I pulled the 3.7s further out than 4 foot. 

The trick is to convince her that you aren't pulling them out from the front wall, but pushing them closer to the rear wall.

[SteveFord]

Luckily, her eyesight is getting worse with age - a few more years and I'll have it made.  I'll probably have to rope the damned things off to keep her from knocking them over.

Berni,
Would you be willing to post your drawings here instead of going the PM route?
Maybe some year I'll have 20.1s (or .2s).

[berni]

Steve, will post some pdf-s of drawings. All measurements will be in mm

What's true about the 20.2, I hear that for a long time now?

[SteveFord]

Just wishful thinking on my part.

[rw@cn]

Wishful thinking on my part as well

[berni]

Here you go Steve.I cant attach pdf-s,so pictures must do.