[terry j]

sorry for the delay, was not being rude!

    Thanks for the explanation and hints, obviously a very creative solution to a complex problem if constructed in wood due to so many cuts.  So if I understand correctly you use some sort of plaster poured in to the rectangular box, then comb it out vertically with a metal or even wood mold in the correct prime shape?  If so wouldn't that be rather heavy stuff when finished?

    I'm thinkin' a nice youtube video 

Well done Tom, you 'kinda' got it! Obviously a few tweeks needed to make your description more accurate, but that's at least an eight out of ten! (where is the gold star to give you? )

If you don't do it with a bit of, what's the word, cleverness? then yeah they would be very heavy (not that hardwood is particularly light...depending on which design you are doing), so I guess part of what I would be 'selling' are these little 'tricks' such as how to make it very much lighter??

Youtube schmewtube! haha.I'm not all silly, starry eyed or romantic about this, let's be completely honest, the potential market that may exist is absolutely tiny AND I have not the slightest doubt that 'once it's out there' that market will dramatically shrink as people just copy and go for it themselves. (hence my earlier point about making the tool available at such a reasonable cost that most would say 'it's not worth my time and bother to make my own')

But still, such a tiny market that if/when I go ahead I may as well try to maximise any benefit from it for as long as I can, however short that window may be. Besides, I'm such a lazy schmuck I really don't want to do much work! hahaha.

Can I ask YOU guys what a workable strategy might be?? What/how would I pique your interest, which aspect is of most importance to each ...speed, cheapness, flexibility etc etc?

Eg, do I sell the dvd quite cheaply so each can a) decide if it is for them or not after all b) those that are willing to make their own tool can go for it armed with the knowledge, c) those that want to go ahead but don't want the hassle of making their own tool can then buy the tool from me. yada yada yada

So, even if they DO make their own tool then I have offered fair exchange for the data, and have gotten that little from the sale of the dvd. Am even thinking of expanding the dvd content a little, to include all forms of acoustic treatment..to even more exotic stuff like 2d QRDs and PRDs, simply to make the dvd a valuable thing in it's own right if you follow.

Is it OK to ask these things?? If so, thanks for your help...if not then I am sure I will find out soon enough! haha

[Browntrout]

Can I ask what you have noticed to be the effects of the ones you have made? Have you found the diffusor within a diffusor to work well comaperd to a single type approach? Thanks, Ben.

[terry j]

Hi Ben

can I be perfectly honest with you?

I THINK I could hear increased ambience with the diffusors behind me. But I do not want to lead anyone astray....I could easily have imagined it too! The point is, with ONE panel of diffusors in the room (and as I only had one, I had to put it either directly behind or in front if you follow) I do not expect a HUGE completely unambiguous difference. (and don't lose sight of how big this particular room is, it's huge!)

Hence my slight wariness to be emphatic about it. I kinda alluded to that before i think, where a guy throws 'a batt' in the room, or a blanket over the TV, and thinks he now has a treated room.

Same here, ONE diffusor in the room, well frankly it ain't gonna make a huge difference (tho there are always exceptions of course, just talking generally here)

But then again, as ambience is MY gig in audio, it is something I would notice if it improved (???)

Make no mistake, a full suite of diffusors will be a part of my final room, I am *convinced* about the theory etc, but the last thing I would ever want to do is launch into an audiophile spiel...'I changed the brand of cap and OMFG!!!'

So, on the flip side of that, to be able to make them easily and cheaply well then I CAN make heaps and test them! (imagine forking out however much for one commercial diffusor...and as we theorise ONE won't do much)..boy then it would be a real curly one would it not? 'One, which cost heaps, did not do much...do I cut my losses now or spend even MORE?'

[Browntrout]

Thanks for the realistic reply. Don't feel it necessary to restrain oneself from spouting forth with highly emotional audiophile speak, I don't....
   When you say
    "But then again, as ambience is MY gig in audio, it is something I would notice if it improved (???)"
    I think we have something in common....
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64758.0

One other question, for anyone to answer, if diffusion is meant to produce a scattering of the sound does it require symetry in its' application. Would the soundstage be damaged or improved if two different diffussors were used at the first reflection points? Say the same design but one in vertical plane and other in horizontal? Or different designs for left speaker and right?

[terry j]

Hey, I am all for enthusiasm with ones gear and the pleasure it brings, I was more honing in on the , hmm, special? 'ability' audiophiles seem to posses in being able to fool themselves! haha.

So whilst I am reasonably sure that I did perceive increased ambiance, I am holding off a little till I can be more sure that I am not 'wishing' it.

Re the symmetry, 1d qrds (as opposed to 2d qrds or prds) ARE directional, and for some that is perhaps their biggest disadvantage?

ALONG the fins there is no real effect on the sound, they work ACROSS the fins. In most situations that probably does not matter too much (I mean having them, at different angles as you proposed), but I can imagine that it may not be best to have different angles at the first reflection points left and right, it could very well throw the soundstage off??? Both vertical, or both horizontal (at the first refleection points) I would imagine.

PRDs or 2d QRDs, well they diffuse in a hemisphere basically, so that problem does not arise.

For much the same arguments, i would keep left and right (ie the symmetry) the same design, and I'd extend that to prds and 2s qrds as well (??)

that's not to say you cannot have different desgins in the room, I would however 'mirror' any symmetrical positions, if that made sense.

AND, I am no expert ok?? so that is only my gut feel.

[Browntrout]

Cool, I have some time off coming up in a couple of weeks and shall make a diffusor or two and post pictures and listening impressions. Thanks, Ben.

[terry j]

hmm, qrdude just got quite a bit more interesting! maybe more to think about before you build??

hey collo, if you ever read this, well done!!!

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/431360-diffusor-baffles-skywalker-sound.html

have a look see.