[dayneger]

Do you have any models or drawings you could share? 

Ideally, 3D files like STEP (.stp), IGES, SolidWorks (through 2019), etc., but 2D would of course also be helpful.  Or links to where I could find them. 

I did do a search and only managed to find a few earlier requests for the same.

[mlundy57]

Do you have any models or drawings you could share? 

Ideally, 3D files like STEP (.stp), IGES, SolidWorks (through 2019), etc., but 2D would of course also be helpful.  Or links to where I could find them. 

I did do a search and only managed to find a few earlier requests for the same.

The people I'm aware of that have these type drawings developed them to cut and sell CNC flatpacks so I wouldn't expect them to be willing to share said drawings.

[dayneger]

Well, I'm not trying to reverse engineer someone's flatpack!  In fact, I neither need to nor would it make sense--I'll be "forward-engineering" my own parts that leverage the much more simple tools in my garage.  The flatpack offerings are fantastic and I'm deeply envious of those with big CNCs!

However, before I invest a few thousand dollars I'd like to model some ideas, visualize alternatives to discuss with my wife, possibly make a foam core and paint bucket mockup so that we can get a realistic sense of the sizes/volumes in our living room before committing the time and money to a given path. 

I was hoping to save some time trying to chase down dimensions and modeling parts... especially since much is currently missing on the website.  In another thread a kind person pointed to a working link for the H-frame subwoofer but I can't the same for the NX-Otica regular or MTM, details on the drivers, etc.  I was hoping that someone could share out any of this information (obviously without revealing IP categories).

If anything I generate could be used by others, I'll be happy to send files to Danny to post to the site. 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

I've roughly modeled the back half of a BG Neo3 as part of a thread to mimmic the deep cup that is no longer produced, should be really easy to mirror it, and make the adjustments for the front rivets, and removing the terminals. It's not a 100% match obv, but definitely a fair 90% approximation, that will work for basic planning.



That said, Danny's Neo 3, much like like the $30 GRS-3 PDRW clone on Parts Express, uses nuts and bolts instead, which are a little larger than the rivets. Not a big deal, but can make a difference if you're not expecting it.

I dont have Danny's GR Neo3s on hand yet, but when looking at one  back in October, aside from the nuts/bolts, I believe it's more similar design to the BG model. The GRS clone is more semetrical than the BG model which has a vertical offset between the top & bottom portions.

I've also been working on different 3D printable waveguides with varying levels of success, that can make them more easily mountable to a DIY cabinet. But i still haven't really gotten the shape  right just yet. (Esp since ive been busy with other projects lately)

[dayneger]

Thanks so much for sharing this drawing, which at least gets me a little closer!

[Captainhemo]

If wanting   rough sizes of cabinets for in room modeling,   the NX-Otica is 53.5"  with the  supplied 1" base,  the front baffle is    8.5" wide at front and the cabinet is roughly 15" wide at  rear.

Our  h-frames are a bit taller than   the ones Danny has plans   for on his website due to the beefed up material we use and the  non offset  bracing to allow for    all woofers  being forward moiunted.

I'd have to go back in my    drawings but IIRC, the  NX MTM is   22.25"  tall.... it is in that  area anyhow


Remember,  with any of the OB designgs, you'll want  to be a minimum of 3' from the front wall, more if possible

Hobs,    funny thing with regards to the 3d printed  guides..... Danny   had one of ours  done  and  the  3e printed version did not measure nearly as well,  not sure if it  was a resonence  issue or what  but it did not measure up

jay

[dayneger]

Thanks, Jay!

That's odd about the 3D printing.  Geometrically speaking it shouldn't matter, of course, so perhaps vibration/resonance issues you mentioned would explain the measurement differences.  Out of curiosity, were the 3D parts run on an FDM printer (filament deposition), and if so, was the fill ratio well under 100%?  With FDM thick wall sections are usually automatically cored out and filled with only 10-20% material (saving material and printing time) unless you set it differently in the slicing software. 

For the NX-Otica MTM it would be useful to know the center to center distance of the 165s and rough dimensions of the waveguide (or ideally send me the file you 3D printed).

Using your notes I just mocked up the MTM section in cardboard and... that thing's more substantial than I'd realized! 

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Hobbs,    funny thing with regards to the 3d printed  guides..... Danny   had one of ours  done  and  the  3D printed version did not measure nearly as well,  not sure if it  was a resonence  issue or what  but it did not measure up

jay

For sure, I'm almost certain it's a density/resonance issue tho the only way to counteract that would be to use solid infill, plus i still want to try a couple more designs. But i haven't had too much bad luck, yet at least. Just need to figure out how deal with the throat cancellation i seem to be getting at ~10K.. 
But I'll need to get another Neo3 to do my testing since the GRS model is a PDRW clone, as are my two chromed GB Neo3s. Might need to snag one from Danny if he has a spare.

I'm still also tweaking the back-cup design. I finally have the basic shape down for the mounting bracket, but there's a spot near the terminals where it isnt mounted tightly enough to keep the gasket sealed. But that should be a fairly easy fix overall with some minor tweaks to the design.

[Captainhemo]

For sure, I'm almost certain it's a density/resonance issue tho the only way to counteract that would be to use solid infill, plus i still want to try a couple more designs. But i haven't had too much bad luck, yet at least. Just need to figure out how deal with the throat cancellation i seem to be getting at ~10K.. 
But I'll need to get another Neo3 to do my testing since the GRS model is a PDRW clone, as are my two chromed GB Neo3s. Might need to snag one from Danny if he has a spare.

I'm still also tweaking the back-cup design. I finally have the basic shape down for the mounting bracket, but there's a spot near the terminals where it isnt mounted tightly enough to keep the gasket sealed. But that should be a fairly easy fix overall with some minor tweaks to the design.

We've got a  drop in version of   our NX   guide, have had it for    years.  But with cost of   making them  on not a huge scale vs  making the netire baffle,  it is not   worth it.
The  back cup idea  is   great,  would be nice to see the  N- Series  resirected.......  I've  actually got a  couple deep cups somewhere   just  for    "someday"  if  I  want to build another  set of  N3TL's as I really  enjoyed those speakers

Danager,   12"  C2C on  NQ's

jay
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[Hobbsmeerkat]

Yeah for sure, esp since a final product would most likely need to be be injection moulded, but the tooling process is definitely the biggest coat hurdle esp for small batch products. but its time consuming and only one can be printed at a time. Plus it still requires sanding/priming etc. And for reliability/consistency you'll likely need a decent printer with a few upgrades like linear rails, and higher quality print heads/heaters &bed to get the most consistent results. Plus printing them face down has its own drawbacks, esp for the edges of the waveguide. And if printed face up, thats a ton of support structures that are needed..

You & me both! I need to re-design a few elements namely to the cup itself to add rigity to the mounting structure, and hopefully increase mounting the pressure, but in the end it may be easier still to just make one that is just glued on with a silicone adhesive like the original BG design. It'll require fewer parts and plastic, but the results so far have been promising at least with the BG model before I killed it, even the GRS3 masured well down to 1000Hz.

I found a pair of both BG Neo 3 & PDRW demo units with shallow cups for $140/pair that I might jump on, & rip the cups off for testing. But I also want to grab one of Danny's just to verify the results for his units as well. Plus I have a BG faceplate I can use to verify the results, but I still need make a test baffle to mount it to for testing, since that what the N series uses.

[dayneger]

Thanks for the C to C on the MTM, Jay.

I'm not sure I'm familiar with which waveguides and cups are being discussed?  Maybe posting an image or two would help.  Or... the original intent of the thread... share some files. 

Without knowing more details I'll add that there are ever increasing options for producing parts, depending on what you're trying to achieve and in which numbers.

-  Injection molding has traditionally presented a very high bar for capital investment, but companies like Protolabs have come a long way in offering semiautomated mold production in aluminum, paired with limited part runs.  If the tooling can be limited to simple A-B construction (just 2 halves with no additional actions like slides or lifters) on small parts, injection molding could be more reasonable than one might think.

-  Alternatives include casting urethane parts from silicone molds and similar techniques for room temperature options like epoxy-granite, polymer-concrete, etc.

-  Individual part costs might not need to be too awful in 3D printing.  Perhaps less known is that you can FDM print some pretty cool materials now, including ones that have a significant amount of wood or metal (exotics are a lot pricier than PLA, of course... premium PLA is max $35 per kg).  With a dual-head printer one could even experiment with mixtures of the above with layers/volumes of flexible (maybe dampening?) elastomers like TPU.

Cheers!

Dayne

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Talking about this thread I plan to get back to working on again soon:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=171314.0

Its an idea thread for mainly a deep cup mod for the Neo3 PDRW which is no longer available. Only models now are the shallow cup and open-backed versions. Only the older Neo3W still has the deep cup version available, but isn't common or really suitable for that use.
Danny had an old line of speaker kits centered around them until BG halted production a few years ago, i believe around the same time that the Neo10 also halted regular production, if not permanent now.

[dayneger]

Ah, wow--usually hard to invest much in product end of life situations.  Sounds like 3D printing will remain the best option. 

Maybe try one of the filaments that look like wood, then.  Usually 70% PLA, 30% wood fibers in different colors, often can be sanded and stained.  I've been meaning to get some to duplicate my wife's favorite hair comb.   

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Yeah, GRS does have a clone that look nearly identical, but it only plays down to 300-250hz, which isn't low enough to pair with Danny's servo subs to be useful.

Makes for a pretty good mid bass driver tho from 350-8K Hz.

Side note, I got both pairs of BG Neo 3 with shallow cups for about $65 each, plus shipping. Should give me a chance to see how both types react to the back cup mod once I get the design down.
Description says they were used as a demo unit, tested then put into storage, so they still should be in good shape tho, unlike my Chrome models, where one is kinda weak out & the other is totally blown.

[david45]

Yeah, GRS does have a clone that look nearly identical, but it only plays down to 300-250hz, which isn't low enough to pair with Danny's servo subs to be useful.

Are we 100% sure this is really the case? I expressed my concerns to Danny just last week and he said he doesn’t think low end extension will be a problem with them (?).

The plan is to use 12 of them for a pair of Line Force speakers with tweaked crossovers

[Hobbsmeerkat]

It likely wont be an issues with so many of them in a line, but when used in a Super mini baffle, they still couldnt play as low as the original BG Neo10 models. i believe it was Hal that did the Super Mini testing with both the GRS 3 & GRS 10.. ill need to dig up my old thread again.
The 10" model begins discussion/measurements around page 4.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172523.0

I do have one I'm not currently using if Danny wants to do some testing with one.

[david45]

Thank you for the reply and for offering to send Danny the driver you still have in your possession.
Mine were supposed to ship on the 17th but you know how it is with PE sometimes...delayed until the beginning of April for now.
Hopefully somehow Danny can get it to fit a little better to the Super-Mini baffle for testing. He’s got some of those still.
And I’m sure I’m not the only one who wishes for a Neo10 replacement that performs reasonably well and can be used in Danny’s design. Let me know in private if you would like me to cover shipping.