[SoCalWJS]

I, for one, would hate to see a separate thread by each owner of a product who weighs in with an opinion for it. Having many in one thread, with healthy discussion, seems a much better option.

[neobop]

As a point of reference I have at one time or another had the following setups over the last 10 years.

Garrard 401 in custom walnut plinth with two Jelco arms and Ortofon SPU stereo and mono MC carts
SOTA Star Sapphire Vacuum Platter turntable with an SME 309 tonearm and Ortofon Jubilee MC cart (boron cantilever and nude shibata stylus)
Rega P7 with Benz Glider MC cartridge

I can't say that any of the above tables were better for spinning records than the Pioneer PLX-1000.  Feel free to take that with a large grain of salt if you like.  But I am very pleased so far with the Pioneer and will be buying a second unit with a mono cartridge that will be used only for mono LPs cut in  the 1950s and 60s (I have a large collection of them).

What the PLX-1000 seriously lacks is audio snob appeal (not really a problem for me but it will be a deal breaker for some).  It is not massively over-engineered and will not attract people with more upscale tastes who care as much if not more about aesthetics as they do performance.  But purely as a platform for spinning records I would not hesitate to recommend the PLX-1000 to someone who wants excellent vinyl playback performance but doesn't want to spend a small fortune to get it.

--Jerome

I'd say that's an impressive list of tables/arms that preceded Jerome's Pioneer, especially considering price.   No production line is perfect and the Chinese OEM here might be less perfect than some others, but Pioneer seems more than willing to rectify any problems. 

Are 1200 owners predisposed to find fault here?  I think so, but Wayner had specific criteria and Grado hum is a deal breaker.  For those who can forgo a Grado, buying a headshell or two or modifying the feet is more normal than not.  Pioneer would be well advised to replace the headshell, but that shouldn't be much of an obstacle for those looking for a table.  Go to that same KAB site where Jerome bought feet, and you'll see a host of 1200 mods that's mind boggling.  They'll modify almost everything on the table.

I don't want to start an anti-skate debate, but IMO both Wayner and Jerome are doing it wrong and might as well be playing pin the tail on the donkey - blindfolded and dizzy.  Like trying to negotiate the toughest track on the HFN test record invariably results in too much anti-skate applied, using a blank part of a record makes no sense.   

If you go over to Karma there's a list of tables unsuitable with Grados.  This phenomena isn't exactly unheard of.   

Most all the 1200 fan boys hate these "clones" made in China - pretenders to the DJ throne.   The Japanese have been using Chinese manufacturing for decades and the Chinese can easily surpass 1200 quality if ordered as such by the company whose name goes on the product.  If the 1200 is so great, why all the mods?   Power supply, main bearing, tonearm rewire or replacement, damping, etc. etc.   
Technics discontinued the table.  Get over it.
neo 

[jsaliga]

I don't want to start an anti-skate debate, but IMO both Wayner and Jerome are doing it wrong and might as well be playing pin the tail on the donkey - blindfolded and dizzy.  Like trying to negotiate the toughest track on the HFN test record invariably results in too much anti-skate applied, using a blank part of a record makes no sense.

Nothing really to debate as far as I am concerned.  I know there is some disagreement on this subject and I do what I feel works best for me.  There's no need or desire for me to go into it any further than that.

--Jerome

[Wayner]

Not using a blank record makes no sense. I've been using this technique for years and years and it never fails me, but it does show arms that the AS doesn't work. No blank disc, shooting in the dark, I'd say.

Whats even more interesting is that on most of my tables, the blank disc method almost matches the dial settings. I've also had others tell me that after setting the AS in this fashion, their other test discs walked right thru the AS test section.

If you don't like the method, then don't use it.

[jsaliga]

One final comment and then I will gracefully bow out.

It should be generally understood and accepted, at least I hope it is, that people actually listen to how their turntable is performing as they are setting it up and adjusting things.  Speaking for myself, I use information from the cartridge manufacturer as good starting points to get me in the ball park and do not use them as edicts written in stone.  I tune VTF, antiskate, and VTA to my personal liking, and how my records sound play a considerable role in that.

...but to each his own. 

--Jerome

[CrazyAudioGuru]

Not correct alignment as the baewald protractor doesn't work well at all with it, as notice a lot of inner groove distortion and roll off on highs. Had it set exactly like your and almost gave up on it. As notice picture you had your also pull on right side to end. I know as I have the same turntable and audio technica at440mlb. The pioneer PLX-1000 works best with Stevenson protractor.  DIN with spindle to pivot of 215mm (230mm-15mm for the overhang) which gives an overhang of 14.929. Start with 52mm (not 54mm) from the end of cartridge washer to tip of stylus, set the screws lightly and then use the template to fine tune. Eliminated pretty much all inner groove distortion and siblance and sound great now, actually better the my Project Carbon DC and dead silent, no hum from pre-amp.

[neobop]

Not correct alignment as the baewald protractor doesn't work well at all with it, as notice a lot of inner groove distortion and roll off on highs. Had it set exactly like your and almost gave up on it. As notice picture you had your also pull on right side to end. I know as I have the same turntable and audio technica at440mlb. The pioneer PLX-1000 works best with Stevenson protractor.  DIN with spindle to pivot of 215mm (230mm-15mm for the overhang) which gives an overhang of 14.929. Start with 52mm (not 54mm) from the end of cartridge washer to tip of stylus, set the screws lightly and then use the template to fine tune. Eliminated pretty much all inner groove distortion and siblance and sound great now, actually better the my Project Carbon DC and dead silent, no hum from pre-amp.

They say a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.  I'd like to know about dignity, respect for the process and hearing what someone has to say.
Since when do comedians determine the outcome of an election?   This isn't an endorsement, it's a question and I'm just sayin.

I only set-up 1200's for all the top dance clubs DJs in Philly because I'm clueless about this and they wanted their decks to sound as distorted as possible.  It was all the rage back then, and once they heard my friend's hopelessly distorted 1200, they got excited and you didn't even need an appointment to get distorted, I ..... 

Rather than wax nostalgic about possible alignment solutions, let me ask, why does Wayner want a Rega arm mounted 3mm closer to the spindle?  This stuff had been discussed about a million times here, but it's math and you know how difficult that is.
Stock Rega alignment is close to Stevenson.  That puts the inner null at standard lead out groove.  Seems like a good idea to maximize inner groove tracking, and comes in handy when a  1200 has 102dB bouncing off it.  I kid you not.  I want down to hear my friend's set-up and even with wet cotton in my ears it was too loud. 

What's the matter with Stevenson?  Outer part of LP is unacceptable?  Okay try Loefgren A (Baerwald)???  Push the cart around 2-3mm forward in the shell and increase offset angle to align.  What's the problem, run out of slots?  There is no standard distance between cart mount screws and stylus tip so exactly where did I go wrong?   

News flash - any 2 nulls is an alignment.  Might not be your preferred vintage sipping alignment, but .....  Why not push the cart all the way forward and use a ruler to increase offset angle just so?   DAMN!!!!   Sounds better.  Why didn't I think of that???
neo   

[CrazyAudioGuru]

Trying a different head shell Ortofon sh-4 and 2m bronze on it later this week. Turntable itself is good and is very capable, like I said sounds better then the project DC I had, but yes does have it flaws and great overall review. I just know this table works best with Stevenson protractor, as I tried both alignments and listen to both with the at 440. Head shell being one of the main issues, but didn't have issues with anti skate, had it set at 1.8 grams and then doesn't pull on blank vinyl. Would have been nice if same as the tracking force on the cartridge, but usually on most turntables not the case. Yes with at440 need thicker mat, or shims due to 16mm tall. I just won't disregard it as issues can be easily resolve and would be a great overall sounding table once setup and issues dealt with. 

I believe they tool the slots shorter, due to most DJ's like to push the cartridge back, even all the way as some claim as they claim they get scratch performance, of course bad alignment and even seen them turn the counter weight around backwards and turn it all the way toward the cartridge to keep from skipping when scratching? As well as angle the cartridge a bit simulating a straight arm. Some of the crazy stuff I seen them do when have to realign Technics 1200's back in the day.

[undertow]

I guess I am missing something here... But this seems to just be an exact 1200 clone anyway?

[Letitroll98]

No, it's a Hanpin table, the factory that makes Staunton and Audio Technica tables, as well as a few others.

[Wayner]

Update.....I have found a brand new Technics SL1210MK5, new in the box (well, someone had it for 6 days and then returned it) and its been sitting since then. It performs as I want it to, the AS actually works, the stock headshell allows me to set it into a Lofgren A alignment (ATN440MLa stylus will reach Lofgren B, ATN150MLX will not,so it's in a Lofgren A (Baerwald), it doesn't hum with a Grado, and the starting torque is awesome. Buying price (with free shipping) was $999.

I have modded it already to accept RCA interconnects rather then its factory supplied interconnects. The cartridge is an AT440MLa body with an AT150MLX stylus, tracking at 1.35 grams. The perch is a nice Boos maple platform that John TheChairGuy would be proud of.





There are also some custom designed interconnects (my invention) that are 5 feet long and have 52pf capacitive measurement including the RCA jacks, which I think in awesome. Single center conductor is solid 31 gauge copper, out conduct is also 31 gauge, but also wrapped with braid, and a wife made cotton sleeve.

Wayner

 

[Letitroll98]

Congrats on your find, that's gotta be insanely rare.

[Jeff K]

A wife? How many you got? 

Seriously, looks great. Is that a felt mat on top of the stocker?

[Panelhead1]

Update.....I have found a brand new Technics SL1210MK5, new in the box (well, someone had it for 6 days and then returned it) and its been sitting since then. It performs as I want it to, the AS actually works, the stock headshell allows me to set it into a Lofgren A alignment (ATN440MLa stylus will reach Lofgren B, ATN150MLX will not,so it's in a Lofgren A (Baerwald), it doesn't hum with a Grado, and the starting torque is awesome. Buying price (with free shipping) was $999.

I have modded it already to accept RCA interconnects rather then its factory supplied interconnects. The cartridge is an AT440MLa body with an AT150MLX stylus, tracking at 1.35 grams. The perch is a nice Boos maple platform that John TheChairGuy would be proud of.





There are also some custom designed interconnects (my invention) that are 5 feet long and have 52pf capacitive measurement including the RCA jacks, which I think in awesome. Single center conductor is solid 31 gauge copper, out conduct is also 31 gauge, but also wrapped with braid, and a wife made cotton sleeve.

Wayner

  That is a nice rig. I will PM some ideas on getting the most out of it. The drips of oil on the bearings really helps too.

[Wayner]

A wife? How many you got? 

Seriously, looks great. Is that a felt mat on top of the stocker?

No, its not a felt mat. Its a mat that I tooled up years ago, made from .09" thick EPDM closed cell sponge, 50 durometer. I have about 8 left from the original purchase (I also bought the tooling for it (steel rule die)), and there are none to spare.

I have devoted quite a bit of time with these tables and I have my own tricks to make them perform as I want them to. Someday, when I'm in a really good mood, I will publish them.

My SL1200MK2 (2007 model), is now fitted with a Shure M95HE cartridge and a JICO SAS stylus, running at 1.25 grams. This table might embarrass some rather spendy decks, and the one side effect of this cartridge combo is lots of hearing of pre-echo (tape bleed on master tap) on many analog originating LPs.

For those that still believe that the 12xx series of tables are just "DJ" tables, I shake my head lots of times and make a private joke about to myself (and the bride).

Wayner

[Jeff K]

No, its not a felt mat. Its a mat that I tooled up years ago, made from .09" thick EPDM closed cell sponge, 50 durometer. I have about 8 left from the original purchase (I also bought the tooling for it (steel rule die)), and there are none to spare.

I have devoted quite a bit of time with these tables and I have my own tricks to make them perform as I want them to. Someday, when I'm in a really good mood, I will publish them.

My SL1200MK2 (2007 model), is now fitted with a Shure M95HE cartridge and a JICO SAS stylus, running at 1.25 grams. This table might embarrass some rather spendy decks, and the one side effect of this cartridge combo is lots of hearing of pre-echo (tape bleed on master tap) on many analog originating LPs.

For those that still believe that the 12xx series of tables are just "DJ" tables, I shake my head lots of times and make a private joke about to myself (and the bride).

Wayner

I hear you. I purchased mine new from KAB in '09. I had Kevin do the tonearm damper, Cardas rewire, and strobe disabler. I sold my MH mmf-7 the next week. Since then, I've added an AF sapphire bearing (with a bronze sleeve instead of the polymer), KAB external PS, and their internal power regulator.

I am still using the stock heavy mat, but tweaking these things are part of the fun. So if you ever decide to publish the ones you've come up with, I'm all ears.

[neobop]

I finally worked out the lead sub-mat.  The problem is getting the lead to lie flat.   You have to trim carefully, flatten, and use some kind of adhesive like double sided tape or whatever.  So far best results are with a thin deer hide or leather.  Best yet with a Kenny 500.  Seems way better than lead/Achromat.  Also kicks butt on a DL 1250/Unitrac. 

I have Ray Brown Bam Bam Bam going in my cans -  phones that is.
Later
neo

[Jeff K]

-  phones that is.
Later
neo

Thanks for the clarification.