[steve f]

Perhaps I expect too much.

[macrojack]

If you are one of the people who are calling for this thread to be shut down, consider this. You can please yourself on this matter without affecting the rest of us by simply not opening the thread on your computer. Mission accomplished --- and you did not have to burden anyone else with your ill-advised calls for censorship.

I personally believe that Technics discontinued the 1200 because it was no longer sufficiently profitable. Why else? They had the name, the momentum and the corner on the market. The engineering was already in place. Why quit? And why would anyone else with the resources invest heavily in engineering and tooling only to reach a point that Technics found to be untenable?

My supposition is that Pioneer slapped their name and slightly upgraded cosmetics onto an existing table as a gambit to see if they could grab the vacancy left by Technics. It didn't work on Wayner but very few of their potential customers are going to even be aware of fine cartridge calibration issues. They'll sure get the hum thing though - if they try a Grado. Are there other cartridges that will hum on the Pioneer?

[kingdeezie]

Like Frank and probably many others, I'm getting tired of the BS comments by a few people. A technics 1200 not a good table? Or a members honest review of the Pioneer doesn't matter. I am all in favor of freedom of speech. Your freedom ends when it harms others.

Please shut this thread down.

Did you feel the same way when Frank came onto someone's thread about power cables recently?

He came into clarify his position on power cables when someone misquoted him, but managed to call the OP's priorities "ridiculous" on the way out.

I am all for dissenting opinion, but I can't stand hypocrisy. The door has to swing both ways. 

[a.wayne]

To whom it may concern,
The KD500 happens to be a DD table that came w/o an arm.  It was a popular table, not obscure, but wasn't in continuous production "forever" like the 1200.
The 500 is a servo controlled DD.  The KD600 is quartz locked - a more appropriate comparison perhaps.  There were versions of these tables that came with arm.  The 550 and 650 each had S arms with removable headshell.  It doesn't matter how the Pioneer is being marketed, since when is it inappropriate to discuss other tables with a review? 

Problem is, this wasn't a review, but is taken as such.  This is pointing out certain features that didn't meet OP's minimum requirements.  OP could have overcome these problems with a little effort, but I suspect the hum was a deal breaker.  My dKisappointment is in knowing only what I suspected and virtually nothing else.  Stereophile review said it beat everything < $2K even with these problems which weren't mentioned.  Not a lot of illumination was offered here, and I've read a couple of testimonials that were very positive. 

So, where do we stand with new tables under $1K ?  I don't know, pick your compromise.  BTW, a KD550 or 650 spanks a 1200 all day long - no contest.  Not sure what that has to do with anything.  Maybe the Pioneer PLX-1000 MKII will be even better and get the fan boys to shut up.  After all isn't it the 1200 MKII and later we're talking about and aren't users modding to the extreme, even main bearing and arm replacement? 
neo

+10 Neo..


No longer have any 1200's, but still have the 650 , it  came armless when purchased many moons ago.



Regards ...

[steve f]

I guess I'm misunderstood. im all for dissent. It makes life interesting. It wouldn't hurt to be a bit polite though. More people would post, and enrich the discussions.

I can also ignore people who aren't, and shall do so in the future.

[wushuliu]

If you are one of the people who are calling for this thread to be shut down, consider this. You can please yourself on this matter without affecting the rest of us by simply not opening the thread on your computer. Mission accomplished --- and you did not have to burden anyone else with your ill-advised calls for censorship.

Ok well you're welcome to go on spinning the hamster wheel if you feel that by some miracle you are going to learn more about the Pioneer by arguing about it. Wayner gave his review, the table is going back and no one else who has posted appears to own one or have direct experience with it.

This thread will go nowhere but down from here. We all know it.

[griffithds]

Wayner,

One thing that bothers me with that turntable but didn't seen to bother you is those screw slots that are in the head shell.  I am not referring to there lengths, because I did notice you were not happy with that aspect of its design, but what I am referring to is the actual slots themselves.  I can never get the screws to tighten enough with this head shell design to keep the cartridge to stay in place and would have also as Neo suggested, discarded it in favor of one with flat screw surfaces.  I must admit, I do like the overall looks of it though!
BTW:  I like your mini-review!  This forum needs more of them.
Regards,

[SoCalWJS]

Wayner -

Thanks for taking the time to share your impressions after purchasing and setting up the Pioneer TT. Too bad it didn't measure up.

I don't blame you for returning it based upon your comments. If it doesn't do things right mechanically (anti-skating, alignment etc.,) to your satisfaction, I wouldn't care how it sounded. I would constantly be wondering about the known problems and wondering "what if...." all the time.

As to the sound quality of the original Technics TT, opinions vary. I remember back in the day (late 70's), it's reputation at the Stereo store that I worked at (which sold it) was that it was a quality, rugged, reliable, easy to use product. We did not consider it the best sounding for the money, but rather a very good compromise. It had it's problems with respect to sound quality (we weren't fans of the tonearm and felt it had more feedback issues than other TT)....

....but the other TT's in the same price range had their own issues which including quality and reliability. It was tough to justify buying/selling TT's that we believed weren't going to last very long. We generally recommended the best ("most expensive") Dual that the customer could afford as being the best combo of sound quality and reliability of the various TT's we sold at the time. We tried to explain the advantages/disadvantage of DD vs Belt Drive and left the choice up to the customer as well (although price was usually the deciding factor).

[a.wayne]

As to the sound quality of the original Technics TT, opinions vary. I remember back in the day (late 70's), it's reputation at the Stereo store that I worked at (which sold it) was that it was a quality, rugged, reliable, easy to use product. We did not consider it the best sounding for the money, but rather a very good compromise. It had it's problems with respect to sound quality (we weren't fans of the tonearm and felt it had more feedback issues than other TT)....

Mirrors my experience with Them ............  Did you do anything with Denon DD or Micro Seiki  DD tables ?   

[SoCalWJS]

Mirrors my experience with Them ............ Did you do anything with Denon DD or Micro Seiki  DD tables ?

Drooled over them! 

A competitor carried the Denon and Micro Seiki. They were waaay out of my price range at that point in my life. Every now and then I would go to the store that carried them and just look at them. I thought the Micro was gorgeous at that point, and the JVC was just cool.

We carried Phillips, Dual, Technics, Sony, and a couple others that I just can't remember right now (they obviously left a lasting impression on me). We were a pretty basic Stereo Store chain that didn't have much that was considered very Hi-End at that time (although we did carry some of the better Infinity Speakers)

[lazydays]

Where did you learn this stuff? The Technics SL1200MKII is probably the least prone deck to feedback in the entire industry. Why do you think it's the most sought after DJ table in the world.

Unbelievable......

my first issue with feed back was with an original SL1200 many years ago. My dealer helped me to isolate it, and it was then acceptable. I can't say that I noticed a "muddy bass", and was just plenty good enough. Then I went to listen to a set of Maggies at a local dealer. They used Conrad Johnson and Counter Point equipment with a top of the line Thorens. I liked the speakers, but the turntable snatched me away.  It was the transparent and extended highs (I brought four records). About ten minutes after we left, my wife asked me if I was going to buy the speakers (she loved them). I said I wanted that turntable! That was the first really good table I ever listened to, then I run into a guy that went to the same church my wife did. He had a Linn with all the upgrades. Even better bass and the same transparent highs. Plus it was warmer in the midrange. But at the time you could have bought four SL1200's. We know where the value was!
gary

[woodsyi]

Fun weekend, eh?

I was busy with a certain evaluation of my own in between social, professional and church commitments.  It's no fun listening to certain music over and over to listen carefully for certain aspect at a time.  I can definitely see why Wayner didn't want to get into that.  I think long term listening impression is best if it can be arranged.  Your mind will eventually work out all the stuff and tell you yes, no or maybe. 

I am going to allow difference of views here as long as no one is called out personally in any threatening manner.  We all have likes and dislikes of things as well as persons.  Past history also make us jaundiced when viewing posts from certain people.  I try to be as objective as possible but it's impossible to be perfectly detached.  I try though.  I am asking everyone to do the same.

I ask everyone to be mindful of your own prejudices and post your thoughts as cordially as possible.  I will take actions when it gets really out of control but I am going to let folks express their thoughts.  No one is like another but we can all get along if we are mindful not to cross a line.  Diversity in beliefs and thoughts is a good thing. 

Oh, by the way, this is an audio circle.  Let's try to keep it audio.  Thanks.

Full disclosure:  I have belt, direct drive and idler turn tables.  I like them all for what they do.

[Lymbo90]

This is my first post on this forum so I know I will have zero credibility.  But you have to start somewhere.  So here I go.

First off a little about me an my audio equipment.  I've been into vinyl and have owned way too many turntables since the early 70's.  Yes, I'm old.  My current equipment:

TEAC AI-2000 Integrated
Jolida JD9MKII with Needle Doctor upgrades (ESA Clarity Cap Output Filters, added resistors and Tung Sol Gold-Pin 12AX7 Tubes
Martin-Logan Motion40 speakers
Current Turntables: Technics SL-1200MK2 with KAB upgrades (Litz tonearm rewire, Cardas RCA cables, outboard PSU, fluid dampening system and Isonoe footer system). Technics SL-1600 MK2, Technics SL-7.
Current Cartridges: Ortofon Quintet Black, Ortofon MC-3 Turbo, AT-150, Dynavector 10x5, AT-440MLa, AT-120e
Turntables Recently Owned and Sold in the Last 3 Months: VPI Scout 1.1, Sony PS-X7, Pro-Ject RM 5.1 SE

The reason I'm responding to this thread is because I've quite a different experience with the PLX-1000 than Wayner.

I actually found the setup a breeze, including the cartridge alignment.  However I did not use the included Pioneer headshell.  I prefer the Ortofon SH4 headshells so that's what I used.  I had absolutely no hum from the turntable on any of the several carts I've used.  BTW, aren't Grados notorious for hum?  I've read the about a zillion times through the years.

I absolutely would not get rid of this turntable and enjoy it thoroughly.  I just recently returned my VPI Scout 1.1 for a refund because the motor went out on it after about 3 weeks of ownership.  VPI sent a replacement motor but it was entirely different.  They then told me they have a "few" different motors they use.  Why didn't they just ask me for a model number the first time.  Secondly I always thought VPI would give a truly wonderful sound.  While it did sound good I sure as heck didn't hear that much difference between it and my Technics and yes, my Pioneer table.  Nor did my friends and family members.

So to me this table is a definite keeper.  It's nothing like the Audio Technica AT-LP1240 USB I bought from Amazon and returned after 1 week.  The Pioneer blows that out of the water.

I post on SH and there are members there that have had the same pleasurable experienced with the PLX-1000.

So I just wanted to offer up a different perspective.  I encourage those who are interested in the turntable not to take my word or Wayners or Stereophile's but buy it from a retailer that will let you return it for a full refund, like most, and come to your own conclusion.  Basing a purchase on a turntable should be a decision you make by auditioning the TT.  Not taking other's opinions as your core basis on whether you should buy a turntable.

H

[lazydays]

when I first saw pictures of the table, I saw some things I liked and some I didn't like. I've never been hot for "S" shaped tone arms, and I didn't like their head shell. Back in the day I switched over to an aftermarket head shell on the Technics for an improvement. I used almost nothing but Grado's, and hum was nothing I ever knew about. I think the Pioneer with a better tone arm might be a great help.

I'll reserve judgment till I have one in my hands, or at least be around one. Yet I'm pretty much set with the turntables I have. Yet I have one used SL1200 MK.2 just setting around for a complete KAB rebuild. Yet I already know it won't run with my Final Tool.
gary

[Lymbo90]

when I first saw pictures of the table, I saw some things I liked and some I didn't like. I've never been hot for "S" shaped tone arms, and I didn't like their head shell. Back in the day I switched over to an aftermarket head shell on the Technics for an improvement. I used almost nothing but Grado's, and hum was nothing I ever knew about. I think the Pioneer with a better tone arm might be a great help.

I'll reserve judgment till I have one in my hands, or at least be around one. Yet I'm pretty much set with the turntables I have. Yet I have one used SL1200 MK.2 just setting around for a complete KAB rebuild. Yet I already know it won't run with my Final Tool.
gary

Gary, I'm sure the Grado hum issue is not terribly prevalent but if you do a google search for Grado cartridge hum you'll see what I mean.  I was thinking of getting a Sonata a while back and when I reasearched it that's when I noticed quite a few posts concerning it.
Jeff

[*Scotty*]

I bought my last TT about 20years ago, if a person were going to recommend a good quality entry level TT under a grand what would it be?
Scotty

[a.wayne]

I bought my last TT about 20years ago, if a person were going to recommend a good quality entry level TT under a grand what would it be?
Scotty

Would love to help you scotty, buy you saw what happened the last time i recommended one ... 

What table in the 1K range would be appealing? (I would not be interested in any Rega or Project).

 

[a.wayne]

when I first saw pictures of the table, I saw some things I liked and some I didn't like. I've never been hot for "S" shaped tone arms, and I didn't like their head shell. Back in the day I switched over to an aftermarket head shell on the Technics for an improvement. I used almost nothing but Grado's, and hum was nothing I ever knew about. I think the Pioneer with a better tone arm might be a great help.

I'll reserve judgment till I have one in my hands, or at least be around one. Yet I'm pretty much set with the turntables I have. Yet I have one used SL1200 MK.2 just setting around for a complete KAB rebuild. Yet I already know it won't run with my Final Tool.
gary

Atkinson, did comment elsewhere on a loose tone arm and apparently , they had a TT expert go over the Pioneer , setting it up and correcting wrongs before the review,  well,  based on his comments ....



For the record, i have multiple TT's, only one now  is DD, a KD650 ....



Regards...

[a.wayne]

Gary, I'm sure the Grado hum issue is not terribly prevalent but if you do a google search for Grado cartridge hum you'll see what I mean.  I was thinking of getting a Sonata a while back and when I reasearched it that's when I noticed quite a few posts concerning it.
Jeff

I had a grado on a Micro Sieki for years that was fine when it went into storage a decade ago,  out of storage and it hums like crazy with the Grado,  go figure ...




Regards.

[Lymbo90]

I had a grado on a Micro Sieki for years that was fine when it went into storage a decade ago,  out of storage and it hums like crazy with the Grado,  go figure ...




Regards.

That is odd.