Totally confused about OB design

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rak313

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #40 on: 18 Apr 2015, 01:43 pm »
Hey Guys,

Sorry for the wait. I had to lay it out again from scratch as my original layout was done using 1 1/4 inch MDF everywhere. This scribble will give you the essential dimensions and you can account for additional material thicknesses as you desire. 1 1/4 - 1 1/2 inch material thickness is recommended for the top, bottom, and sides.

Not shown in the pic, but the drivers are centered left to right. 5 1/2 inches from the outside face of the side panels is centered. The baffle is also 3/4 inch thick as drawn. Braces are 6 inches deep.

Best,

Ruben 
...

Thank you for the drawings.

mlundy57

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Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #41 on: 18 Apr 2015, 03:06 pm »
Ruben,

Thanks for the plans. I will be building a pair in the next two weeks. I plan on taking my Wedgies, with the bass units, to the Lone Star Audio Fest in Dallas in two weeks.

Mike

Outofthewoods

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Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #42 on: 18 Apr 2015, 04:35 pm »
No problem, fellas.

Ill draw up and post a cleaner and more thorough set of plans when I get a minute. Ill include a cut list as well. 

Best,

Ruben

rak313

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #43 on: 28 Apr 2015, 05:05 pm »
Danny,

For the weggies, would a single 8"  OB servo for each weggie be ok with a 12" sealed servo for the very low end? Room is 25x15x10.  I dont play really loud.

jparkhur

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #44 on: 28 Apr 2015, 05:22 pm »
Either way.  Just do one 12....

JP

mlundy57

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Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #45 on: 28 Apr 2015, 05:48 pm »
Danny,

For the weggies, would a single 8"  OB servo for each weggie be ok with a 12" sealed servo for the very low end? Room is 25x15x10.  I dont play really loud.

If I remember correctly, the HX300 amp needs at least two drivers. I think it is because it can handle either 4 ohm (three drivers) or 8 ohm (two drivers) loads but not a 16 ohm load (one driver).

The OB version of the 8" woofer only comes in 16 ohms. The 4 ohm and 8 ohm 8" drivers are for ported or sealed use.

Mike

Danny Richie

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #46 on: 28 Apr 2015, 06:22 pm »
Danny,

For the weggies, would a single 8"  OB servo for each weggie be ok with a 12" sealed servo for the very low end? Room is 25x15x10.  I dont play really loud.

The Wedgies really need three of the 8's to keep up with them.

rak313

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #47 on: 12 May 2015, 11:43 pm »
I have a question about the drivers designed for OB vs sealed.  The SW-12-04 is designed for sealed use and has a Qts of 0.28.  The SW-12-16FR  and SW-12-08FR both have a Qts of 0.75, and the SW-08-FR16 has a Qts of 0.79.

It believe I've seen it stated that the OB drivers have a higher Qts for use in OB design.  My question is why is this desirable? While I know that for mechanical and electrical systems, a dampening of 0.7 is often selected as a good compromise allowing rapid response while minimizing overshoot.  (A system with a Q of 0.5 will have real poles and no overshoot, but not as quick a rise time to a step input.)

But I was under the impression that the servo drive electronically moves the poles (based on one of 3 settings) and has one setting with a Q of 0.5 for "music" and higher Q for HT.  If so why is it necessary to have higher Q  OB drivers?


bdp24

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Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #48 on: 12 May 2015, 11:53 pm »
Great question!

Danny Richie

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #49 on: 13 May 2015, 12:31 am »
An ideal total Q parameter is considered a .7 value. Typically this is what you shoot for with a sealed box design. So you combine the mechanical and electrical compliance of the driver with the added control and compliance of the box to get to that figure.

A driver with a .7 total Qts has achieved that control level without the added need of the air space of a box.

Look at it two ways though. Power needed to put the woofer into motion and stopping force or control of the compliance to bring it back to rest.

The .7 Qts range allows the open baffle driver to be put into motion much like typical sealed box driver. But the changing electrical control of the servo system changes the driver total Q values when the input signal stops. So it adds a lot of additional stopping force much like a driver with a .1 or .15 Qts compliance. So the compliance is really changing as it plays.

bdp24

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Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #50 on: 13 May 2015, 12:51 am »
Great answer!

rak313

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #51 on: 13 May 2015, 03:45 pm »
An ideal total Q parameter is considered a .7 value. Typically this is what you shoot for with a sealed box design. So you combine the mechanical and electrical compliance of the driver with the added control and compliance of the box to get to that figure.

A driver with a .7 total Qts has achieved that control level without the added need of the air space of a box.

Look at it two ways though. Power needed to put the woofer into motion and stopping force or control of the compliance to bring it back to rest.

The .7 Qts range allows the open baffle driver to be put into motion much like typical sealed box driver. But the changing electrical control of the servo system changes the driver total Q values when the input signal stops. So it adds a lot of additional stopping force much like a driver with a .1 or .15 Qts compliance. So the compliance is really changing as it plays.

Thanks for the answer.  But I don't follow it. 

I thought the servo is constantly working, measuring both the coil current, and the coil velocity (from the voltage across the sense coil), and deriving an output voltage that corrects the error between these sensed signals and the commanded input signal.  And that the closed (servo) loop response, it that of a 2 pole system with the poles located based on the switched position of the amp, not the underlying speaker's pole location.  (Then for the OB application, a fixed equalization of  6 dB/oct is applied to account for the gain with increasing freq.)

Where I am going with this is wondering what happens if one uses a DS-800-3 in an OB application? (Why? Well because I already have some.)  What would it sound like? 

Danny Richie

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #52 on: 13 May 2015, 04:53 pm »
Thanks for the answer.  But I don't follow it. 

I thought the servo is constantly working, measuring both the coil current, and the coil velocity (from the voltage across the sense coil), and deriving an output voltage that corrects the error between these sensed signals and the commanded input signal.  And that the closed (servo) loop response, it that of a 2 pole system with the poles located based on the switched position of the amp, not the underlying speaker's pole location.  (Then for the OB application, a fixed equalization of  6 dB/oct is applied to account for the gain with increasing freq.)

Where I am going with this is wondering what happens if one uses a DS-800-3 in an OB application? (Why? Well because I already have some.)  What would it sound like? 

With not enough resistance (a stiff enough compliance) the driver will bottom out easily. The system isn't designed for a low total Q.

rak313

Re: Totally confused about OB design
« Reply #53 on: 13 May 2015, 05:05 pm »
Thanks.  I am so interested in the wedgies with a OB bass (probably 3x8).  I just don't like to try things before I understand them.  Of course, I'm not sure I will ever understand it.