[neobop]

Hi Griff,
No rush, the X1 took out much of the mystery. 
I am a little curious why there isn't more talk about these.  Maybe only a few guys scored?
I looked on a couple of Japanese auction sites after you brought it up on Agon, and it seemed like there were quite a few of them around, mostly Z1.
neo

[griffithds]

Hi Neo.

Neither the X-1 nor the Z-1 was ever brought into the US or Canadian market place.  This is why neither of them ever show up on Ebay.  But they were quite popular in Japan and somewhat in Europe.  Just about any time I visit the Jauce auction site (Japan Ebay), I will see some variety of a Z-1 for sale.  The problem I see is that a lot of the various models that are for sale will have the 'S' (conical) stylus installed.  Doesn't matter what the model of the cartridge is.  They must have a million of these tips floating around in Japan and are being used as a quick and cheap replacement tips.  Knowing how good the Jico SAS tip is for this cartridge body (the Z-1),  I would imagine Jico is doing a very brisk business in SAS sales in Japan!  Actually that JVC/Nivico Z-1 stylus that Jico sells is a very good replacement also.  It has the tension wire and is a Shibata tip.  It's a alloy cantilever instead of the original Beryllium but still a very good replacement. 
The X-1 does pop up occasionally on the Jauce site.  But it is hard to get a bunch of people talking about something they can not locate to purchase unless they join a Japanese auction site.  Even Nandric, (Nikola), will not join that site so I have been doing his buying for him.  It does take a bit of understanding to operate within that culture.  I during my employment days, have spent many business trips within Japan so I am not intimidated with their system or market place.  I must admit though, I do have problems understanding what the seller is trying to convey sometimes with some of those translations! 

[neobop]

A few months ago there was a Z1 on US ebay, but that's the only one I saw.  Now it seems to be only styli.

Searching for Z1 for sale - Japan, this comes up:
http://www.hifishark.com/search?q=victor+z1

Looks like Yahoo auctions has a few.  What's the deal with Yahoo, are they an intermediary or a separate auction site? 
Looking at those prices I imagine the fees and shipping are considerably more than the cart. 
neo

[griffithds]

Hi Neo,

From what I can tell from their (Yahoo), site, is is quite similar to Jauce.  You must join, then transfer money from PayPal to your Yahoo account before bidding, etc.  Same as Jauce.  Most Japanese will not deal with international buyers. They are quite the close society in this regards.   It is because of this, that there are actually several of these 3rd party 'go between's'.  It has a lot to do with not trusting foreigners and not speaking other languages.  If you have had difficulty in the understanding of the auction translations from Japanese to English, you must also think about it the other ways around.  The translation of English (or other languages), also do not translate well to the Japanese methods of speaking/thinking.  Many Japanese understand English when spoken to them face to face, but to read it or read it through translation programs is it quite another matter.
I have never really found out whether the Yahoo is a separate auction site from Ebay or it is the same?  I have discovered items (same item), going to either Yahoo or Jauce so I guess it is the same site, just different 'go between'!  If they were separate, you would think Yahoo would have one here!
Regards,

[Grbluen]

Yeah, I followed a couple of the Japanese sites for a couple of days based on the recommendations here. I gave up after a day or so.

[griffithds]

I've not bought anything from the Yahoo site, but I have bought many things through the Jauce auction site.  One of the strange things that I still have trouble wrapping my head around is this thing called the 5 minute extension.  We are all familiar with looking at the auction end time.  Some of us even practice snipeing (the practice of placing a bit during the last couple of seconds of the auction).  On the Japanese auction site, if the 5 minute extension option is agreed upon by the seller, what happens is that if someone places a higher bid during the last 5 minutes of the auction, the auction get extended an additional 5 minutes beyond the original ending time.  This doesn't just happen once, but as often as someone places a higher bid during the 5 minute period.  The auction doesn't end until a 5 minute period passes without 'any bidding'!   Think about this for a minute.  In theory, and auction could go on for ever, providing someone continues upping the bid.  I have lost several items due to this 5 minute extension.  Remember, you must have your bidding money in 'Yen' and deposited in the Auction sites account.  So if you decide to place an additional bid during this extended 5 minute period, you have to go through PayPay and transfer additional funds (in Yen), into you Japanese auction site account before you can continue you bidding.  This all takes more than 5 minutes, so the chances are the auction will close before you get another chance to bid.  The only way to beat this is to have large sums of your money sitting in your Japanese auction account waiting for you to find something to bid on.  Their (the Japanese auctions), really are set up to protect the Japanese  whether it be buyer or seller.
But there are so many audio items that you can not find else where on the Japanese sites that I find it hard to resist and have learned to work with what is provided.  Also the exchange rates from dollars to yen are in favor of the dollar.  It is also getting this way in Europe with dollars to euro's so not only are the rarity of the items to be considered, but also the bargain prices.
Regards,

[neobop]

I've been looking at some of the newer AT MM's, specifically the low inductance models.  We talked about the 100E with generator specs nearly identical to the 150MLX.
http://www.lpgear.com/product/AT100E.html

I think I previously mentioned the newer 5V, with specs slightly changed.
http://www.lpgear.com/product/AT5V.html

360mH, 610/2.1K ohm DC/impedance.  In both cases the stylus/cantilever is used to tone down response just as the ATN120E tones down the identical generator - 440ML.  The 33EV (MC) has a .2 x .7/tapered aluminum which tones down the previously boron/ML 33 series.

The newer 5V was designed by the same team that designed the 150ANV and 50ANV, and I'm guessing that it's slightly superior to the 150 motor, although I don't know how audible that is.  Inductance is almost the same.  I would think it's close to the tolerance of the 150 spec?  But DC and impedance are lower which is a good thing.   I'm thinking of getting a 100 series low inductance body and the 5V looks interesting.  I also want a mono cart.  I'm making a list for Santa.     Meanwhile, I keep buying and replacing records.

David,
What do you think about this?
Have you had a chance to check out the JVC?
Bet I know what kind of toys you're buying for Xmas.  Better to give than receive.
Regards,
neo

[neobop]

Saw a post by Luckydog on Karma.  He says that wiring the channels of a stereo cart in series for mono, is superior to parallel.   Series gives you horizontal output only, where parallel just combines stereo channels.   So, with parallel connection you still get vertical noise and imperfect linearity between channels (separation/crosstalk) makes it fuzzy and unfocused. 

Other considerations might be inductance and resistance.  Cart inductance would double instead of halve.  Same for resistance.  This would tend to give a HF roll-off instead of rising high end.  You might have to change loading anyway.

There are some inexpensive mono carts out there that are said to yield good results - might be easier if you have removable headshell.  Halcro has the AT33 Mono (LOMC) and there's a less expensive AT MONO3 (HOMC), looks like for med mass arms.  Scott's DL102 is nice for heavier arms. 

Hadn't thought about this before.  Anybody have ideas how to wire 4 cart leads in series for mono? 
neo

I've been thinking about this mono cart business, and I still can't figure out why wiring the channels of a stereo cart in series will give true mono, in other words cancel vertical output.   Taking Luckydog's word for it, here's how to do it:
The trick is to connect the 2 plus wires together and do the same with minus.  Then connect the cart just like you would wire 2 speakers in series.  You jump the minus on A channel with the plus on B.  Then connect the plus leads to the plus pin on A channel and the minus leads to the minus on B.



If you try this with a MM the resistance/inductance will increase, so you might want to experiment.  I have an AT12E wired in parallel and I'm not sure if it's a good candidate.  It's very high inductance to start with, so ??   Maybe a MC would be a better idea? 
If anyone tries this please post results.
neo

[neobop]

Azimuth -
Most of us think of azimuth as getting the needle perpendicular to the record, when viewing the cart from the front.  If you are using an oscilloscope or a computer program for minimum crosstalk, this would be incorrect. 
Minimum crosstalk is achieved when the generator (coils) are oriented so they're parallel to the record surface. 

Think about it.  It's the cantilever movements that excite the generator.  If those movements (side to side) are tilted with respect to the motor and groove, then the balance is uneven.  If the needle is slightly askew with respect to azimuth, it's not as bad.  Because the groove walls are 45° a slightly disoriented tip will cause less error than a tilted motor.  Hand made MC's tend to be worst offenders. 
neo

[artman]

Hello All,

I received both the Victor Z1S and the Jico SAS stylus. I used the stock stylus on the Z1S for about a week and while it was "pleasant" and inoffensive, it does not even begin to suggest what the SAS stylus brings to the mix. The Jico stylus is incredibly quiet. When the record is in mint shape, there is no audible noise. The midrange is ethereal with an almost tactile presence; you can hear people breathing before they begin to sing. Musician's voices emanate from bodies in the soundstage in a way that allows a listener to be completely engaged in the music that is before them. I have about five hours on the cartridge, and I'm assuming that the diamond will need be worked in. I'm generally really pleased with what I'm hearing. My only concerns are that the bass seems a little shallow in comparison to the Empire 4000 and there is a tiny bit of glare in the lower treble. I suspect that my phono stage is the culprit. My phono stage (heavily modded Dynavector P75Mk3) is loaded at 47ohms and I think it has a capacitance of 560pf.

Does adding resistance soften the sound? Is the opposite true for capacitance?

Thanks

[Halcro]

Welcome to the JVC Z1/SAS Club artman...
I'm surprised you say that the bass seems "shallow" compared to the Empire 4000, as at 47K Ohms Resistance....I think most of us here agree that the bass is fairly dominant...
I also have the Empire 4000D/III and think the bass is a little wooly and less defined than the Z1...
Can you tell us what arm and turntable you're using?
Are you able to adjust the loading on your Dynavector phono stage as I load mine at 60K and 125pF whilst Griff uses 100K..
By elevating Resistance, I have found generally that low-frequency output (or boom) is softened whilst high-frequency response is at the same time elevated.
Adding Capacitance I have found, does not generally affect the lower or mid frequency response but can 'dial in' some missing high-frequency harmonics.

[artman]

Hi Halcro,

I'm using a Roksan Xerxes turntable with an Origin Live Encounter Mk3. I lowered the vta to just below level last night and the bass has improved significantly. Now the treble is a tad soft. I don't think I can change the loading at the moment. The Dynavector is optimized for MC. I will have to add some resistance and subtract some capacitance manually.

I can also alter the sound by changing the input tube of my Quicksilver monoblocks.

Your advice regarding loading and capacitance is very helpful.

Thanks

[neobop]

Hi Artman,

Adding resistance - if you mean raising the value of input resistance like going from 47K to 100K (loading up), will make it brighter.  Loading down will make it less bright.

The affect of capacitance is more complex.  It combines with the inductance of the cart and becomes part of a tank circuit.  It affects the response of the cart by lowering high frequency resonance.  Results vary depending on cart inductance and mechanics.  Sometimes capacitance is used to augment treble dips.  It will always lower high frequency resonance and this could be a concern in a high inductance cart (MM).  In the case of the Z1 I don't think this would normally be much of a problem, except 560pF at the preamp seems excessive.  Depending on you cables that could net nearly 700pF total. 

Any way you could verify the Dynavector capacitance? 
If your input resistance is fixed at 47K, you can't just add resistance to get a higher value.  Adding resistors will put them in parallel to those already in place and will give you a lower value.
neo

[Halcro]

Hi Artman,
Neo's explanation regarding Resistance is a more apt description than mine...'brightness' is an appropriate adjective. Higher numerical Resistance ALWAYS increases brightness whilst lower numerical Resistance ALWAYS decreases brightness.
The reason I high-lighted 'ALWAYS'....is that following Neo's explanation of Capacitance loading....there are many cartridges which don't appear to audibly change at all with varying Capacitance. In those cases I always leave the loading at 'minimum'.
When a cartridge DOES respond to Capacitance loading, it doesn't necessarily mean that 'more is better'....
It can be highly rewarding to adjust Resistance and Capacitance in a balanced manner until the sound is superior to the standard 47K Resitance and only cable Capacitance.
The Shure V15/III is a prime example....
An adjustable Resistance and Capacitance control is invaluable for this...
Regards

[artman]

Hi Halcro and neobop,

The default setting on the phono stage is actually 560pF and my tonearm capacitance is 130pF. I have emailed Dynavector in regard to changing the capacitance via the jumpers for the mc stage. While the phono stage has values for resistance, it doesn't have values listed for capacitance.
 
Dynavector manual:
http://www.dynavector.com/pdf/P75_mk3_emanual_%20r2v0_a4.pdf

A friend of mine is a very good tech and he says that he can change the capacitance for me. It will void the warranty, but the warranty has already been voided because my tech buddy installed an opamp socket that allows the end user to swap out different opamps. This made a huge difference.

Thanks,

artman

[neobop]

Artman,
I don't know what carts other than the Empire you use, but that one recommends < 100pF.  Some of the older recommendations might be for preamp capacitance rather than total.  I'm not sure of the recommendation for Z1, it must have been low for 4-ch.   Halcro mentioned he settled on 60K and 200pF in the preamp. 

What op amps did you replace, and with what?
neo

[Halcro]

Hi Artman,

I've never heard of inbuilt fixed Capacitance in a phono-stage of 560pF. It just seems way too high and added to your tonearm Capacitance, it could be strange on some MM cartridges...
And I don't understand providing Capacitance for MC cartridges which shouldn't need nor respond to it...
Perhaps you can clarify this with Dynavector as the Manual does say other values of Resistance and Capacitance are available.....

If you are planning on adding more MM cartridges to your repertoire...I'd consider buying a phono-stage that allows you to alter the loading, preferably 'on-the-fly' as these changes are rather subtle.

[artman]

Hi Halcro and neobop,

The opamp that replaced the stock opamp in the Dynavector is the Analog Device AD797. I don't remember the opamp it replaced. The difference would be like comparing a cheap new 12ax7 to a nos Mullard or Telefunken. The Analog Device AD797 opamp is smoother with much more nuance etc.

I`ve emailed Dynavector to try and figure things out. According to my tech friend he can modify the preamp to have a socket for both capacitance and resistance.

What phono stages are you people using? Has anyone had any experience with any of the Sutherland designed preamps?

artman

[neobop]

Artman,
The AD797 has a very good reputation.  You're lucky to have a friend who can do those mods.  If he can install sockets for capacitance and resistance, that would be ideal.   You can get 1% silver mica caps for about a dollar each at Mouser, Newark etc.  Resistor prices vary to about $18. ea. for nude Vishay, but you can get good .1% for a dollar or two. 

I never used a Sutherland, but I checked out the owner's manuals.  They're all geared for MC's.  47K is the only MM option and capacitance is a mystery.  The new TOTL 2-piece unit has a card you can configure, but it sounds like a PIA if you want to reconfigure.  I'm not sure.

I have 4 phono stages.  American Hybrid Technology is my best.  It has sockets for gain and resistance.  Capacitance is 50pF, but I can load additional caps with resistors. 
Not sure if you're familiar with this stuff.  If you put 2 caps together (parallel), the net is the sum of the 2.  Put 2 resistors in parallel and the net will be lower.  You need a parallel resistance calculator or meter to get the final value.

There's an inexpensive stage called Vista.  It too has sockets for gain and resistance, but not capacitance.  Boris, the guy who makes these will custom make it any way you want.  He can probably install sockets for caps as well.  Owners say it beats just about anything up to around $1K, but since you already have the Dynavector.....

Old schoolers don't like IC's or op amps, but they're stuck in the '70/'80's.  Op amps are technically superior and better suited for low level phono signals IMO.  I never heard your modded Dynavector, but with those mods I suspect it will take a lot of money to improve on it.
neo

[griffithds]

Hi Neo,

  I am not sure if you received my reply to your last private message.   While typing my reply, my dog decided to go from sitting on my left side to sitting on my right side.  In doing so, he walked across the keyboard of my lap top.  This happened right in the middle of answering you message.  Suddenly your message was gone?  I don't know if it sent, got deleted, or what ever!  Anyway, I will repeat it here.
There was an emergency in our household so the Z-1 SAS didn't get in the mail until last night.  The delivery date was stated to be on Monday.  You will notice that the generator is no longer a Z-1s but a Z-1e.  The 'S' model (the one that you have heard), was left with our friend 'The Professor'!  You will also notice that I have left the cartridge mounted on a head shell.  I purchased this Z-1e with stylus and head shell from the Japanese auction site.  I did mount it as delivered to me only to determine that it worked.  When Tom returned the SAS stylus, I just removed the 'E' stylus, mounted the 'SAS' stylus, and sent the entire thing to you.  Head shell and all.  I did this only because had I waited, removed the head shell and packed it up differently, I would have arrived at the post office a few minutes after they closed for the day.  As it was, I just made it.  The guy was reaching for the keys to lock the doors when I 'ran' up.
So enjoy!  I know you will. 
Regards,
Don