[Halcro]

Halcro good to see you posting here! I started threads years ago on Audiogon asking about tracking of a Zyx Airy3 (an old one before the X, S coil wire designation) and the threads weren't approved. I experienced quite poor tracking with it and a R50. On some loud dynamic tracks I would hear audible mistracking. Confirmed with the HFN+ test record where the carts would buzz on even the first track of side 2.

I'm curious how your UNIverse fares in this regard?

Thanks J-Pak. Just wondering what your moniker is on A'Gon?
I've never had a problem with tracking the UNIverse....and I've used it in arms as light as the Hadcock GH228 and as heavy as the Fidelity Research FR-66s..
In fact...with over 15 arms and fifty cartridges I have never experienced mistracking..
I'm wondering if the phenomenon might be a set-up or structure-borne feedback problem..?
Have you tried increasing VTF and/or anti-skate?
Regards

[J-Pak]

Thanks J-Pak. Just wondering what your moniker is on A'Gon?
I've never had a problem with tracking the UNIverse....and I've used it in arms as light as the Hadcock GH228 and as heavy as the Fidelity Research FR-66s..
In fact...with over 15 arms and fifty cartridges I have never experienced mistracking..
I'm wondering if the phenomenon might be a set-up or structure-borne feedback problem..?
Have you tried increasing VTF and/or anti-skate?
Regards

I am dnath on Audiogon. Like AC (and most message boards) I've been on for over decade, but rarely have the time to post.

I wrote it off as my two tonearms perhaps being too light for the Zyx? One was a Scout JMW-9 the other Ace Space from Nottingham. I tried about everything from different protractors to anti-skate, and VTF. I'm now using Soundsmith cartridge (owned 2) which I have found gives me that tonal color of the Zyx, but the tracking now approaches the famous MM cartridges; both SS will pass all HFN+ tracks except the very last torture track. And more important no mistracking distortion on music LPs.

[neobop]

Hi J-Pak,

"I started threads years ago on Audiogon asking about tracking of a Zyx Airy3 (an old one before the X, S coil wire designation) and the threads weren't approved. I experienced quite poor tracking with it and a R50. On some loud dynamic tracks I would hear audible mistracking. Confirmed with the HFN+ test record where the carts would buzz on even the first track of side 2."

It's more likely you'll find the reason if you look at the source of the carts.  They were defective or damaged.  All Nakatsuka designed carts were good trackers including the older Accuphase.  If you bought them new they should have been returned. 

Lots of defective carts floating around out there give people an erroneous impression about a particular model.  I'm not saying you J-Pak, but one reads wild and seemingly definitive opinions.  Carts are like snowflakes, no two are identical.  I guess if you searched long enough you could find two identical snowflakes, and so it is with carts.  Buy a used cart and keep your fingers crossed.  It's just as likely to be someone's reject as a "good" specimen. 
Regards,
neo

[neobop]

I guess I should be embarrassed not realizing recommended VTF of SAS styli, but I'm not.  I am glad Halcro pointed it out though. 

Last night I switched to the Unitrac and set it up at 1.25g - tail up.  It sounds even faster and more effortless.  This cart is more fun than a barrel of monkeys.  [Not sure how that expression got started, and I wonder if a barrel of monkeys would actually be fun, but you know what I mean.] 
Your sitting there listening and stuff like drums or bass maybe a horn, jumps out at you and the cart puts it in your lap.  This is involving like a 3-D movie. 

Haven't checked out any of the problem piano records, but the Z1/SAS never had the problems with those like the X1.  I really think the ill-fitting stylus was to blame.  The Z1 still seems to give up a little in the tonal department.  I'll check that out again and get back to you. 
neo

[Halcro]

I'm enjoying this in-depth 'real-time' auditioning process Neo......
Waiting for the next instalment...

[Halcro]

Just received a Victor X-1IIE


which I bought from HiFiDo and it has the original stylus all in mint condition


I mounted it on the DV-507/II on the Victor TT-101 and have played about three albums...
Without stealing Neo's thunder, and hoping not to be premature....this cartridge is at least the equal of the Z1/SAS...and possibly even better...
I will run a commentary alongside Neo's...
Tried to remove the stylus but it either is glued in or is not removable..? Anyone know....?

[neobop]

Congratulations on the purchase.

"Tried to remove the stylus but it either is glued in or is not removable."

I said all along I thought the loose stylus was the problem, and that problem was only with a few records.  Obviously the original owner of your X1 identified the same problem.  Good luck removing it, but since there's no SAS anyway you can get it retipped?  That looks like a beryllium cantilever, but different from the MK I. 

Watched Game of Thrones last night.  So far this season sucks.  The show keeps getting slower and more stupid each week.  Now they have water lizard zombies.  Get touched by one and you join them.  Wonder if they'll fight Queen Blondie's castrated army.  About time they killed off another main character.
neo

[Halcro]

Watched Game of Thrones last night.  So far this season sucks.  The show keeps getting slower and more stupid each week.  Now they have water lizard zombies.  Get touched by one and you join them.  Wonder if they'll fight Queen Blondie's castrated army.  About time they killed off another main character.

Becoming bored with audio..?...

[neobop]

I was looking at your stylus, is the cantilever flat or tube?  Do you have magnification to look at the tip? 
Even though the body indicates elliptical, that glued in stylus could be an upgrade.  The X1 Griff loaned me, had a stock, but very different cantilever.  Maybe this is a difference between the MKI and II.  It looks like beryllium with the discoloration. 

Nothing much to report with the Z1.  I've been switching components and it's back to the tubes and a line stage.  I increased VTF a hair due to some minor mistracking*.   Everything sounds a little better with an extra .05 or .1g.  This cart has speed, detail and dynamics like crazy and it's enjoyable as hell.  I still think it gives up something in tonality and texture, but nothing's perfect.  I'll keep at it for awhile and let you know if I change my mind.  In the mean time, it really is great on the vast majority of records and I'm still wondering if I should get one.  Guess I'll have to prioritize cause I want a new table, arm, another phono stage, an ART9, and that's just the top of the list.  Guess I've got the bug.
neo

*minor mistracking - still in groove, but momentary lapses.

[Halcro]

Neo,

The cantilever is a tube but must be hollow beryllium as the 155LC beryllium tube is far thinner...?
I think you're right. The stylus appears to be a more aggressive cut than a mere elliptical...?

The sound of the X-1/IIE is now very similar to the Z1 but unlike the Z1 which had a pronounced bass and lower midrange in my system thus necessitating a 60K Ohms loading and a 200-250pF added capacitance.....the X1/IIE is happy at 40K and zero added capacitance. I'm also tracking it at 1.6Gm VTF but may go back to 1.25Gm due to the doubt on the elliptical question...?
I agree with you....these cartridges are great fun to listen to...

Regards

[neobop]

Wow, this is kind of exciting, like discovering something.  It sure looks like a tube, that's why I asked.  AFAIK there are no tube beryllium cantilevers.  They're all boron, possibly ruby/sapphire, but it doesn't remotely resemble sapphire.   To the best of my knowledge AT never made an exotic tube cantilever.  They're all flat rods like the ones we see today.  A couple were tapered rods, but they don't taper them any more. 

This brings up another question, is it even a JVC stylus?  I wonder if another company made a stylus that would fit the X1 MKII.  Maybe it was owned by some guy who worked at Namiki and he custom made a stylus.   

Here's a photo of a Technics boron tube:



Notice how far the stylus sticks out.  That's the one J. Carr said would tend to rotate because it protrudes too much, and I said it would also resist rotation because it was more rigid.  Guess I pissed him off cause he shut up after that, but his analysis was getting too self-serving IMO.  The justification of that giant mounting block on Atlas stylus, was about money not performance.  Pay $10K for a cart and get HOMC tip mass?

Anyhoo, that's probably a boron tube.  If not, discolored aluminum?  Doesn't seem likely, most AL alloys don't discolor like that.  I assume the stylus goes all the way through the tube and there's a blob of something on the other side of the tube holding it? 
Looks sort of like the cantilever/stylus on the Genesis 1000:



Saw another Genesis photo that looked a little different - didn't protrude as much.  Maybe one is a MKI and the other a MKII. 

Wonder if David still reads this thread.
neo

[Halcro]

I had another look through my 10x lupe (it's all I've got)...and the tube is in fact virtually the same thickness as the 155Lc solid beryllium one but is a darker grey (almost black) compared to the mid-grey AT.
There is a slight thickening on the rear of the tube where the stylus is fixed but the thickening extends a lot further than any I've seen and is much shallower than when the glue is generally visible. The stylus is certainly not visible sticking through.
There is no flattening of the tube where the stylus sits (as there is on the 155Lc) with the tip simply extending from the angled cantilever. This would have required an angled slot drilled through the tube...

[neobop]

Both boron and beryllium will discolor differently depending on the impurities in the mix.  Most of the ones we see (AT) have gold, vapor deposited on the surface.  A couple of companies had diamond dust on the surface.  Most were made by Namiki.  They had a patent on the microridge which was used by Nakatsuka (Accuphase, Monster, ZYX).  The AT microline, microridge, and SAS look identical, although the dimensions might be slightly different.  I believe the patent has expired.

So, this might be a short rod - not tube?  If the stylus is glued on the bottom it's probably a rod.  Whatever it is it's very different from the MK I which seems slightly curved and flattens out at the end.  Interesting stuff.
neo

[Halcro]

Having ascertained the worthiness of the X-1/IIE I decided to move it from the Dynavector arm to my SAEC WE-8000/ST


Now I love this long straight 12" knife edge bearing arm from SAEC... It competes at the very top of all the arms I've had in my system but it comes with a very special thin ceramic headshell which is close in its properties to glass... and as such, it sounds hard and bright with all my metal-bodied cartridges. Luckily....by using the wood Yamamoto or Ortofon headshells...I'm able to twist the cartridges to achieve the required off-set angle together with far better sound with most of my cartridges...


The SAEC ceramic headshell does match superbly with wood-bodied cartridges like the Clearaudio Virtuoso


And it also sometimes works well with plastic-bodied cartridges....
So does it match well with the X-1/IIE........?
  

[neobop]

Ever try a wood shim between cart and headshell? 
I have a 3.3g lead spacer from yesteryear.  It's obviously designed to add mass, but it also seems to be a good damper.  It's nice and thin.

I didn't order the Achromat yet because I thought I might need a smaller sized (1200) one for the TT-71.  Now I'm not sure about getting that. 
Playing around with mats last night I remembered your Agon post about the leather mat designed to go under a glass or metal one.  I have a hard  acrylic mat about 2mm thick and I put the deerskin underneath - best I've heard that acrylic sound, really pretty good. 

Familiar with the JVC UA-7045 or 7082 ?  I heard a 7045 a long time ago on a nice sounding table, but I couldn't sort out the contribution of the arm.  They look a little massy, but well made. 

neo

[Halcro]

Have never experienced a Victor arm but their engineers are surely above average IME....
Depends how much you can buy one for?
An underrated arm in my opinion is the Micro Seiki MA-505 and particularly the 505s (with silver wiring)




The 505 should be had for approx. $800 with the scarce 505s probably near $1000...
Regards

[Halcro]

Here are some Links for you..
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Micro-Seiki-MA-505-MkI-Tonearm-with-Original-Headshell-Phono-Cable-/251955818676?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F705-53470-19255-0%2F1%3Ficep_ff3%3D2%26pub%3D5575084939%26toolid%3D10001%26campid%3D5337478673%26customid%3D24215662%26icep_item%3D251955818676%26ipn%3Dpsmain%26icep_vectorid%3D229515%26kwid%3D902099%26mtid%3D824%26kw%3Dlg%26srcrot%3D705-53470-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D831101699674&clk_rvr_id=831101699674

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Micro-Seiki-MA-505-Dynamic-balanced-universal-Tonearm-Arm-/251782465312?rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F705-53470-19255-0%2F1%3Ficep_ff3%3D2%26pub%3D5575084939%26toolid%3D10001%26campid%3D5337478673%26customid%3D24215662%26icep_item%3D251782465312%26ipn%3Dpsmain%26icep_vectorid%3D229515%26kwid%3D902099%26mtid%3D824%26kw%3Dlg%26srcrot%3D705-53470-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D831111473454&clk_rvr_id=831111473454

[Halcro]

Here is a place that specialises in Micro Seiki and SAEC arms.
Most of their advertised ones are already sold but if you contact them, they will be able to get you one..
http://www.fonolab.com/obchod.html?category=2&page=1

[neobop]

Thanks Hal,
The 505 has been mentioned a lot in the past few years.  Lots of love for that one.   That headshell looks a little different than others I've seen, what's up with the mounting holes?   Looks like you mount the cart sideways.   

It also looks like I might have to move in the next couple of years which leaves me conflicted.  I still have an old Sota Sapphire - rehab awaiting completion.  It needs a metal chassis/armboard configuration and a new drive system.  I've already scuttled the suspension.  I figure it might be pretty good with a Teres Verus rim drive, but that alone is $1800.  Maybe I'll get the Victor and sell off a few lesser tables to finance the ill-conceived Sota. 
See any Verus driven tables on the Timeline thing?  Just wondering. 
Regards,

[Halcro]

Neo,
http://www.hifishark.com/search?q=victor+tt
Japan's Yahoo Site seems to be the place for Victors....