[Kshen888]

Hi All,

I am trying to 'tame' my system a bit and wondering if a Tube DAC would be the way to go?

my current main system is Dynaudio S5.4 Mains, Pass Labs x250.8, Simaudio P8 Preamp, Aurender ACS10 Music Server, and a Denafrips Venus II 12th DAC.

I find this system to just be a little too 'edgy'. I have tried swapping out the Simaudio with a Pass Labs XP20, and the difference is night and day! the Pass has a wide holographic sweet sound that is easy to listen to for days and days....but it lacks the low end control and detail of the Simaudio...where the Simaudio lacks the wide holographic sound stage and can get fatiguing after a bit.

The low end grip and slam of the Simaudio was really surprising, and i love the detail it provides but I also want the wide, holographic sound stage and non-fatiguing presentation the Pass offers, so im wondering if a put a tube DAC in the mix if it would give me the wide holographic sound stage of the Pass with all the low end control and detail of the Simaudio?

thanks!

[qdrone]

Could be the cables your using. A tube DAC usually have all the things your looking for,they tend to round off the shrill or hardness in its presentation. Then there is tube rolling so you can match your DAC to your system characteristics. I use a 54ug in my DAC, the 54rgys was to harsh in my system.

[Tyson]

I will never have a system without a tubed DAC for exactly this reason.  Systems with SS DACs usually sound edgy to me.  Some worse than others. 

Try the iFi iDSD Pro, it's a great tubed DAC especially for the $$.

[WGH]

A true non-oversampling DAC will tame a system. I never heard a LampizatOr but can highly recommend:

HoloAudio May KTE which in my opinion is perfect, but that is because I use HQPlayer to upsample to DSD256 (really takes the edge off with no downside)
There is one in the Trading Post: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=187486.msg1965459#new

ANK (Audio Note) 5.1 Signature. I had my doubts regarding this DAC but two of my buddies have this DAC and it does make beautiful music on both the Nola Metro Grand Reference speakers and Magnepan 1.7i speakers. Available as a kit or assembled, my friends built theirs with many resistor and cap upgrades.
https://ankaudiokits.com/product/dac-5-1-signature/


Does the Venus upsample? Upsampled PCM is not my favorite sound with the Salk HT2-TL speakers. Both the Denafrips Terminator Plus and Pontus 2 12th Anniversary upsample in the background confirmed by measurements in Stereophile and GoldenSound.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=186856.msg1963593#msg1963593
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=185525.msg1945439#msg1945439

[WGH]

Or you can sign up for the

Hapa 3 year Anniversary Ember Tour and Giveaway
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=187097.0

Hapa cables can tame your system (if you want them too), increase clarity, are even more holographic and save money instead of buying a new DAC.

[Early B.]

Hi All,

I am trying to 'tame' my system a bit and wondering if a Tube DAC would be the way to go?

my current main system is Dynaudio S5.4 Mains, Pass Labs x250.8, Simaudio P8 Preamp, Aurender ACS10 Music Server, and a Denafrips Venus II 12th DAC.

I used to own the Venus II DAC and upgraded to the Terminator II, then swapped it out for a Lampizator tube DAC. No contest. The Lampi sounded better than the Terminator in every way, especially in diminishing the edgy sound you mentioned. However, good tube gear is expensive, and good tubes are outrageously high. There are plenty of other ways to decrease edginess such as cables, power conditioning, placement, and speaker choice.

[morganc]

A tube Dac will help but it all starts with your speakers. I went through the same process you are going through now and it took me years to get it alls sorted out. 

Have you ever heard your speakers in a  system that you loved ?  I switched from low efficiency box speakers to high efficiency speakers and then to open baffle. I used to have to have tubes everywhere to tame those unwanted highs and shrills.  Now with open baffle I don’t have any tubes for the first time ever and prefer my system over those I had years ago with all tubes from Pre to Dac to amp.  I wouldn’t mind tubes again, but just got tired of the cost of tubes as I prefer to leave my system on for use 18 hours a day.

I know it’s easier to switch Dacs than speakers, but you might wanna demo some newer options if you’re not happy with your sound …….

If you just wanna try tubes, MHDT makes fine dacs at low costs and high reliability.  The Orchid is a great choice. 

Lampizator makes great tube DACs too as mentioned.

The other big item not mentioned is your room and it’s interactions with your speakers as those big box speakers may benefit massively from room treatments. 

Best of luck. 

[Early B.]

I agree with MorganC. Ideally, speakers should be tailored for your ears and your room. I purposely designed my speakers with a tweeter that drops off steeply in the highs because I'm sensitive to them. I also echo the OB sentiment.

[jtcf]

Early B makes a good point.Finding system synergy often involves tweaking speaker positions, room reflections, vibration control, and cabling.I haven't heard the Lampi, but have read quite a bit posted by owners,some of whom found it too analytical in their setups. Others of course absolutely love it.
 I have an Audio Mirror Tubadour lll dac and recently auditioned a Denafrips Pontus ll here at home to compare directly.What I heard was if the source material was edgy it remained so,but it wasn't worse.The Pontus was so quiet (jitter free?) that I was delighted to hear deep into the recordings,cleaner detail, nuance, natural timbres. The old "like looking through a cleaner window" description.But I also have a tube amp and preamp so the tube goodness is there on the backside.It remains a work in progress to sweeten the occasional harsh upper mids.

[Early B.]

Early B makes a good point.Finding system synergy often involves tweaking speaker positions, room reflections, vibration control, and cabling.I haven't heard the Lampi, but have read quite a bit posted by owners,some of whom found it too analytical in their setups. Others of course absolutely love it.
 I have an Audio Mirror Tubadour lll dac and recently auditioned a Denafrips Pontus ll here at home to compare directly.What I heard was if the source material was edgy it remained so,but it wasn't worse.The Pontus was so quiet (jitter free?) that I was delighted to hear deep into the recordings,cleaner detail, nuance, natural timbres. The old "like looking through a cleaner window" description.But I also have a tube amp and preamp so the tube goodness is there on the backside.It remains a work in progress to sweeten the occasional harsh upper mids.

A lot depends on the tubes. Recently, I got hold of some expensive power tubes (expensive to me is $1K+ per pair) and I played the brightest music I own. I was shocked at how much difference the tube choice made in eliminating the harshness.

P.S. -- if you think the Pontus is good, grab a Terminator.     

[jtcf]

Tube choice is definitely important.I've been trying to find new production tubes that sound good so as not to rely on NOS so much. Power tubes are horribly expensive right now

[Rikkipuu]

If you have never heard a DHT pre-amp or DHT DAC you owe it to yourself.  There is something very soothing with DHT's.

I have a GG3 WITH a DHT pre-amp (Allnic), its just different in a good way.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I reviewed the AVA HIFI DVA digital preamp/DAC.  Read my review on the Van Alstine circle.  You can use it as a DAC, preamp or both.

The DAC is very smooth and non fatiguing.  It has an unusually wide, deep and holographic soundstage. It has great detail and it is neutral sounding with a hint of warmth.  It sounds better than my $6K Luxman DAC.

Tubes may or may not give you what you want.  I used to run a tube DAC and Tube preamp.  Now I just use a BAT tube preamp and a tube phono preamp.  Tube rolling to find the best sounding tubes can drive you crazy and cost a lot of money.  You find one tube that you like but there is something that you don't like about it.  So you buy some other tubes that fixes that problem but then something else pops up that you do not like about the new tubes and so on. 

Are you using usb cables?  If so, with some dac's, usb cables can sound remarkably different.  My Luxman and Chord Qutest are very responsive to usb cable changes.  I currently use a WW Starlight Platinum which took my DAC to a whole other level of  refinement.  I bought it used for $300.

[Rikkipuu]

I agree USB cables all sound different.  I had the original Network Acoustics ENO Ag USB, it added a blacker background.  Then I tried a FTA Sinope, it is so smooth and airy and in a different league than the FTA Callisto.

In my system neither USB source or DAC input was best.  I use the Ethernet output of my Streamer and convert it to fiber then to USB then to S/PDIF to input to a LampizatOr GG3.  The PRaT is night and day better than straight USB out to USB input.