[Captainhemo]

Mike,  I quite liked  your bases when  I  originally saw them   ( when you were  making them and posting pics).   Now that I see them  under the cabinets,  I'm  not so sure either......maybe too many curves  for the shape of the cabinets ?
What  about even  going with a  simpiler shape made  from solid or laminated hardwood with just  a roundover  on the top edge  and the four small vertical edges ?   You could finish them   similar to how  you're  finishing  the cabinets.
Just a thought

You have to go with what  you and your wife like and what will work best for you !

-jay 

[mlundy57]

What type of color, dark, light ...?  How about figured/textured? I would think if the bases were too busy they would detract from the cabinets?

Mike

[Captainhemo]

If you went with a  hardwood base ,  even  just a simple  rectangle  shape,  I'd say   maybe  just a bit  darker  than  what the cabinets will be  ... actually even  a close match would look good I  think.  Those cabinets are going to look so amazing,  I wouldn't  think  you'd want anything   distracting   a person from  looking at them so a  base that   blened in  would    be nice.

Again,  we are all different  and like different things,  you   gotta go with  what  works for you 

-jay

[mlundy57]

Thanks,

Maybe Danny will chime in on whether the bases are just for stability or whether they affect the sound. If they are just for stability I may spring for the outriggers. They do have a minimalist and almost elegant look to them:







I'll have to see what kind of hardwood I can get around here and how much it will cost. I thought a dark base would provide good contrast and make the cabinets stand out better but maybe not. Or maybe the idea is sound just my execution is a bit much.

Mike

[Captainhemo]

Think Danny will say  the bases are   for stability.  I believe many  of the plans say you can adjust the thickeness to change the final height .  Plus the N3 cabinets already have the double plate in the bottom  so  they are  1.5"  thick without  the base.
Lots of people  like and use the  dark bases,   here is  a thread  with  Ron's AV3 TL's
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106713.0

On Danny's website if yo look at the  OB5's,  there are some pics with  dark/black bases too

I'm  probably  the  "odd one"  suggesting  using a color similar to the cabinets      

-jay

[Peter J]

I've only seen a few plinths that look integrated to my eye, most look kinda awkward, but perhaps necessary for stability. You could do something like the Soundocitys, but use wood as someone suggested.

Here's some other ideas that may provide some spark.






Edited to add: They are meant to be two ideas, just convenient to put them in same drawing

[Danny Richie]

Think Danny will say  the bases are   for stability.  I believe many  of the plans say you can adjust the thickness to change the final height .

Yep. And the more solidly they are spiked to the floor the better then will sound.

And you can add a wood base and then the outriggers.

[mlundy57]

I tried cutting my stands down. Same design but with a much smaller footprint. They looked a lot better however, when I bolted the base on the cabinet ended up being angled on the base instead of straight.

If I go with the outriggers without a base the tweeters are going to be 3" below ear height. I can compensate for that some by putting 2" spikes in the front and 1.5" spikes in the rear. If I understand the math correctly this would result in about a 3 degree leanback. The listening position is about 10ft away from the speakers. I don't know if that 3 degree of tilt would make up for the 3" in height at 10ft or not.  Another point that may be an issue is that the front and rear spikes would be 8" apart. Don't know if that is wide enough for stability or not.

If I add a minimalist hardwood base I could make up 1.5" of the height difference and spread the floor spikes 3" farther apart (11" instead of 8"). The tweeters would still be 1.5" below ear level but I could still get the same 3 degree of leanback by using the two different size spikes.

My problem now becomes drilling the mounting holes in the new bases so that they line up with the threaded inserts in the bottom of the cabinets and have the cabinets sitting straight on the base. Any ideas on how to do this?

Mike

[mlundy57]

Here is what one of the bases looked like after cutting it down.





As you can see, it is a bit off center and I am still not sure it looks all that good. So I bought a 1" x 12" x 48" piece of Bubinga



I plan on making a simple platform with either a 3/8" roundover or chamfer along the top edge and a very slight roundover on the vertical edges. At 12" wide this piece is narrower than the 14" width called for in the plans so I will probably still need to use the outriggers for stability.  I will need to make some samples to determine what color shellack I want to use on the Bubinga. I'm thinking either amber or garnet.

Mike

[Captainhemo]

Mike,  if it helps,  the bases on both my N3's  as well as my OB7's  are  12" wide  Both are  pretty stable...  as long as no one is going to be body checking  them  they won't go anywhere 

I used a 3/4" roundover on the top and veticle edge  for the OB7 bases (matches the cabinets)  and a 3/8" round over on the top and verticle  of the N3 bases ( again, matches the cabinets)

I think the Bubinga will look good

Can you figure out the amount the  current bases are off center  then   transfer the  holes  to  the  ones you make with thenecessary adjustments ?

-jay

[lacro]

My problem now becomes drilling the mounting holes in the new bases so that they line up with the threaded inserts in the bottom of the cabinets and have the cabinets sitting straight on the base. Any ideas on how to do this?

Mike

Mike,
There are probably several ways to center the base on the existing holes, but one is to measure the hole centers and transfer them to a piece of scrap 1/4" MDF or plywood. Or if you have a piece of clear acrylic (plexiglass) you could use it to exactly locate the holes. Drill the plexi at the hole locations.
 Use it as a template to transfer to MDF or ply. Bolt the MDF to the speaker, trace the speaker onto the MDF, and measure out from the trace. or use a pencil compass set to the distance out from the speaker, and scribe the distance onto the MDF.

 Use the PLUG from a hole saw as the rounded feet template. Cut one fourth of the plug away like a piece cut from a pie. This will give you a round template that will fit perfectly to each corner of the speaker. Once you get your MDF template cut to shape, you can use it as a router cutting template or just trace onto your good stock for band saw cutting. 

Hope this makes sense. I am sure others will have better ideas. Maybe Peter?

[Peter J]

Honestly, I'd skip the bubinga. Not because it isn't pretty stuff, but because it competes for attention. Were it me, I'd want the base to complement the design, not overpower it. You've already got a focal point in the veneer. But, as I tell clients sometimes, it's not in my house, so value my opinion with that in mind.

I actually like the look of outriggers, but it is a more contemporary look. If I were looking for an understated plinth, perhaps something like this. Could be painted MDF.
 




You might also have a look at Salk's designs. They do a sort of "floating" plinth that looks nice.

[mlundy57]

Jay,

Body checking no but I do have two rambunctious dogs, a 58lb Basset Hound and a 55lb Basset/Begal mix. When they get to playing and running around the living room things had better be nailed down. My current speakers survive because they are on metal stands filled with sand.

The Bubinga doesn't look bad. It looks like it will blend in with the cabinets rather than contrast them.







Larry,

I like the plexi idea. I picked up a piece today. I also like your idea of using a hole saw plug as a circle template and of mocking up a plywood pattern. I'll keep that in mind. I think I'd like to get away from that look on these speakers though. Reminds me too much of Mickey Mouse ears.

Peter,

Thanks for the drawings. I like the look of the two tiered plinth. I'm a little concerned about using MDF for the plinth. It seems to be a little fragile, easy to chip or break and these stands will get run into at least by a vacuum cleaner from time to time.  If I used MDF I'd have to make it a lot tougher.

That's why I liked the idea of Baltic Birch or hardwood for the plinth. The problem I had with the hardwood is that my local source only had two options 12" wide or wider, bubinga or purpleheart. I would have liked to use Wenge but they didn't have anything wider than 10". While I could probably set up my router table to do a decent enough job of jointing to glue two narrower boards together, I don't have any way to plane a wide board down. Also, if I could plane it down it would be less than 1" thick.

Which wouldn't really be an issue with a two tiered plinth. I wonder if I could pull that glue up off. How much of an exposed lip is showing for each level in your drawing? The more I think about this the more I like it.

Thanks everybody for all your suggestions and help.

Mike

[Peter J]

Mike, I drew that with 1/2" steps. You're right, MDF edges don't hold up all that well to abuse, but you can toughen 'em up some by saturating with epoxy, perhaps thinned a little with alcohol. Not looking to finish with the epoxy so much as consolidate the core of the MDF.

Take a little paint thinner and wipe on the surfaces of the wood to get a little preview of what it'll look like finished. I would think bubinga would trend towards red pretty significantly, but proof's in the eyeballing.

 If you end up using that wide board, you've got to give it some way to move around...trust me on this, solid wood moves...a lot. Especially across grain.  You could use clearance holes with washers.

[Captainhemo]

I like the look of it     but  like Peter I wonder how much  the color will change.  I like the way it drawq  your attention away from the cabinet the way the back  did.
I hear you on the dogs, we've got a  Belgian Shepherd here  that's about 60lbs.  She's pretty good, I've got her now so  that she doesn't  get  to worked up in here but  still have to watch at times.  All bets would be off if there  were 2 of them 

-jay

[mlundy57]

Peter,

Thanks. What do you mean by clearance holes with washers? Are you talking about counter boring the mounting bolt holes and using washers at the bolt head like I did on the original stands or do you mean something else?



Mike

[Peter J]

I think something like that would work, Mike. Clearance hole would be something like 1/2" hole for 1/4" bolt, and maybe a 1" counter bore for a 3/4" dia. washer. That way the wood can expand and contract under the washer and isn't restricted like it would be if there was no clearance. I'd also limit attaching bolts to 4 unless there's some compelling reason not to. If one tries to restrain what Mother Nature wants to do, well, lets just say she can be very patient but always wins in the end.

[lacro]

Mike, I drew that with 1/2" steps. You're right, MDF edges don't hold up all that well to abuse, but you can toughen 'em up some by saturating with epoxy, perhaps thinned a little with alcohol. Not looking to finish with the epoxy so much as consolidate the core of the MDF.

Mike,
 Epoxy will harden the MDF dramatically. Two coats thinned 5-10% with lacquer thinner will penetrate the MDF. Follow with 2-3 coats of un-thinned epoxy and you will not be able to dent it with a thumbnail. There are several strengths of epoxy available, some are really hard, some are softer and more flexible.

 Another thought is to wrap the MDF with 3/4" X 3/4" hardwood.
I did this in the photo below to use as the baffle for my X-CS Encore build which is still a work in progress. I screwed it up so It's now scrap . I layed-up carbon fiber on to the MDF, and wrapped (glued) all the edges with Black Walnut that I would have eventually rounded over.

[mlundy57]

Working on some MDF mock ups based on Peter's two tier plinth.

If I decide to go the MDF/epoxy route would you recommend:

1: epoxy each piece individually then laminate them together
2: laminate the pieces together first than epoxy a single, though more complex, unit or
3: epoxy each piece separately and attach them to the cabinets separately  (each bolt goes through both pieces but they are not laminated together).

Mike

[mlundy57]

I have two sets of plinths made based on Peter's design. I have put a 3/8" chamfer on the top edge of both pieces. The first one has a 1/2" ledge on each piece per Peter's design.  The second one is identical except it has a 3/4" ledge on each piece. 

Larry, you were right about the India ink. it works much better than the dyes or stains I have tried before and is dry to the touch within an hour. Now I need to find a less expensive source. It is $4 an ounce at the local hobby store.

First up are pictures of the plinth with the 1/2" ledge and 3/8" roundover.









Yes, I know the grill isn't straight. It is actually made for the other speaker so the magnets don't line up (I don't have the cover on the grill frame for this speaker yet).

Here is the same design with a 3/4" ledge and 3/8" chamfer











See, the grill actually fits on this speaker.

I think I might increase the chamfer to 1/2" on the plinth with the 3/4" ledge and see how it looks.

Mike