Rank the Top GR Research Speakers

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nlitworld

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #100 on: 16 Sep 2023, 02:41 pm »
Also, I will need a separate $$$ fund for security services for when Wilson owners order a hit on me.




Even Ferrari's get the custom mods treatment. Clapton is a big Ferrari fan and this was a 458 that he had done to the 9's to style after the old Berlinettas of the 70s. Point being, even the untouchable, high-end items can (and should) be altered to your taste.

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #101 on: 16 Sep 2023, 02:55 pm »

Even Ferrari's get the custom mods treatment. Clapton is a big Ferrari fan and this was a 458 that he had done to the 9's to style after the old Berlinettas of the 70s. Point being, even the untouchable, high-end items can (and should) be altered to your taste.

I was making a joke and don't have a problem doing it.  They probably will send out a hit though.

nlitworld

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #102 on: 16 Sep 2023, 03:30 pm »
I was making a joke and don't have a problem doing it.  They probably will send out a hit though.

Oh I totally knew you were making a joke. I was just further leaning into it with the Clapton deal. I'm sure the Ferrari crowd were appalled to see that. "How dare he..."

NoahH

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #103 on: 17 Sep 2023, 02:21 pm »
Yep. You should send one of those to Danny to fix and upgrade the crossover.
I do think Wilson's are not going to benefit meaningfully - at least not recent ones. Wilson bought out their capacitor maker to ensure supply.

I own Wilson Sabrina's and NX-tremes. I prefer the extremes for orchestral but still prefer the Wilsons for most other music. But that said, it is not by a large margin, and they are roughly 3x the cost.

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #104 on: 17 Sep 2023, 04:33 pm »
I do think Wilson's are not going to benefit meaningfully - at least not recent ones. Wilson bought out their capacitor maker to ensure supply.

I own Wilson Sabrina's and NX-tremes. I prefer the extremes for orchestral but still prefer the Wilsons for most other music. But that said, it is not by a large margin, and they are roughly 3x the cost.
Can you pinpoint why you like the Wilsons better?

Tyson

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #105 on: 17 Sep 2023, 07:21 pm »
Can you pinpoint why you like the Wilsons better?

I'll take a stab at it (I also like Wilson speakers very much, although I don't own a pair).  I think with Wilson you really have the pinnacle of box speaker sound.  Insane levels of detail and clarity, great transparency and prodigious percussive bass.  The overall sound is dynamic, punchy and forward.  Incredibly exciting to listen to.  There's no "but".  Just overall excellent speakers very well executed. 

For the NX speakers, they are pretty much the pinnacle of open baffle sound.  Which overall presents a sound with more depth (ie, literally the soundstage is much deeper), but the tradeoff is that the sound seems more "over there", further away, and less exciting and 'in your face' sounding.  And the bass is also quite different.  For the box speakers, it's just more tactile and physical.  With OB's, it's more clean and precise and more like hearing actual musical instruments in your room. 

Which is best?  I think both are, it really comes down to preference. 

I will say this - even though the NX series is less percussive than the Wilson speakers, the NX series is still world class at dynamics, just not 'quite' at the same level as the Wilsons.  And on the flip side, the NX series is less boxy sounding than the Wiilsons, but the Wilsons are still less boxy sounding than the large majority of box speakers out there. 

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #106 on: 18 Sep 2023, 12:13 am »
My Wilson Audio Duette has a ton of "detail and clarity"... "resolution".  So much so that they will lop your head off if you aren't careful.  As I mentioned before, I had to ignore the setup instructions from Wilson.  For as much detail Wilson pays to other things, the "toe-in until you see just a bit of the side of the speaker" was lacking.  True, it depends on the room, etc. anyway.  I have mine pointed straight ahead and had to spread them further apart, to increase off-axis and "turn down" the volume shouting at me. 

Why share this?  Well, if you watch the video Danny made about how to read spectral decays, he made a comment about the "high frequencies" being between 1-2Khz.  The clues are everywhere, if you pay attention.  Why are the Duette trying to melt my face if not setup properly?  Well, look below.  The Wilson measurement is from an anechoic chamber with the "Near Wall" resistors.  It was in the Soundstage review of the Duette.  The NX-Studio measurement from the GR site is cobbled in there. 

Look at how much more energy / variance is between 1-2Khz between the 2 speakers... it's no wonder the Wilsons are described as FORWARD. Some might say they are shouting at me.  I do like them, though... just have to keep the tiger in the cage.  These speakers have been a learning exercise for what I want... there's a reason why I asked about the 8" NQ driver.  8)

I have no doubt the NX-Studio is a GREAT speaker.


Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #107 on: 18 Sep 2023, 03:08 pm »
I'll take a stab at it (I also like Wilson speakers very much, although I don't own a pair).  I think with Wilson you really have the pinnacle of box speaker sound.  Insane levels of detail and clarity, great transparency and prodigious percussive bass.  The overall sound is dynamic, punchy and forward.  Incredibly exciting to listen to.  There's no "but".  Just overall excellent speakers very well executed. 

For the NX speakers, they are pretty much the pinnacle of open baffle sound.  Which overall presents a sound with more depth (ie, literally the soundstage is much deeper), but the tradeoff is that the sound seems more "over there", further away, and less exciting and 'in your face' sounding.  And the bass is also quite different.  For the box speakers, it's just more tactile and physical.  With OB's, it's more clean and precise and more like hearing actual musical instruments in your room. 

Which is best?  I think both are, it really comes down to preference. 

I will say this - even though the NX series is less percussive than the Wilson speakers, the NX series is still world class at dynamics, just not 'quite' at the same level as the Wilsons.  And on the flip side, the NX series is less boxy sounding than the Wilsons, but the Wilsons are still less boxy sounding than the large majority of box speakers out there.

Reminds me a lot of the experience of comparing my X-Statiks against a pair of Girshman Acoustics Grand Avant Garde a couple years ago.

The Girshman's soundstage was mostly centered around you, with most elements of the soundstage sitting being between you and the speakers, though some songs could get the soundstage to be quite a ways behind behind you.

With the X-Statiks, the soundstage was centered between the speakers themselves, which providing a lot of added depth behind the speakers.
The soundstage was roughly the same in terms of scale, but some things weren't positioned as far back behind you, likely due to the position of the soundstage being further away from you.

Both were fantastic great speakers in their own right, but their soundstage definitely presented differently from one another.
But I can see people having a preference for how they want their soundstage to be presented within their space.

mkrawcz

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #108 on: 18 Sep 2023, 10:17 pm »
I will put the Brutes against Wilsons any day.

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #109 on: 18 Sep 2023, 10:40 pm »
I will put the Brutes against Wilsons any day.

Do you have the Brutes?  Have you heard both?

mkrawcz

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #110 on: 18 Sep 2023, 11:02 pm »
Do you have the Brutes?  Have you heard both?
Yes, and I consider them to be at the same level as smaller Wilson speakers like the Sasha in sound quality. Maybe they can’t go as deep but I’m sure that will change with the next version.

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #111 on: 18 Sep 2023, 11:12 pm »
Yes, and I consider them to be at the same level as smaller Wilson speakers like the Sasha in sound quality. Maybe they can’t go as deep but I’m sure that will change with the next version.

Do the Brutes disappear?

mkrawcz

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #112 on: 18 Sep 2023, 11:29 pm »
Do the Brutes disappear?
Well, all GR Research speakers basically disappear. They can never match the soundstage of the NX-Oticas, but they still have a wide, deep soundstage for what box speakers can do. They make up for the lack of open baffle like soundstage with sheer engagement and energy.

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #113 on: 19 Sep 2023, 12:13 am »
Well, all GR Research speakers basically disappear. They can never match the soundstage of the NX-Oticas, but they still have a wide, deep soundstage for what box speakers can do. They make up for the lack of open baffle like soundstage with sheer engagement and energy.

Great feedback, Thank You.  The main problem with all of these speakers is that I can't run them thru my living room one after the other...

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #114 on: 19 Sep 2023, 12:54 am »
Yes, and I consider them to be at the same level as smaller Wilson speakers like the Sasha in sound quality. Maybe they can’t go as deep but I’m sure that will change with the next version.

What setup do you have running your Brutes Amp Pre etc..?

mkrawcz

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #115 on: 19 Sep 2023, 01:07 am »
What setup do you have running your Brutes Amp Pre etc..?
I actually have my PS Audio BHK pre, BHK300 monos, and Gustard R26 DAC powering them. They really sound great with tubes.

BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #116 on: 19 Sep 2023, 01:33 am »
I actually have my PS Audio BHK pre, BHK300 monos, and Gustard R26 DAC powering them. They really sound great with tubes.
You do have some power for those Brutes.  I just had Patrick at SMC audio build me a single ended DNA.5.  I haven't  had a chance to listen to it yet.   I am thinking of getting a tube preamp and I am curious about the Bully and the new Ottica with 8 in servo's   You have all PS audio gear did you ever have the Direct Stream DAC.

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #117 on: 19 Sep 2023, 03:55 am »
I watched the video of the Brute again... regarding the reference to the Bully "MTM version which shoots the sensitivity up to 94dB..."

So that will still incorporate the 12" Eminence woofer and add a servo sub like this layout or does the servo sub replace the Eminence woofer?:

  • Midrange (M130)
  • Tweeter (T26)
  • Midrange (M130)
  • Woofer (12" Eminence)
  • Servo Sub



BrandonB

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #118 on: 19 Sep 2023, 04:52 am »
I watched the video of the Brute again... regarding the reference to the Bully "MTM version which shoots the sensitivity up to 94dB..."

So that will still incorporate the 12" Eminence woofer and add a servo sub like this layout or does the servo sub replace the Eminence woofer?:

  • Midrange (M130)
  • Tweeter (T26)
  • Midrange (M130)
  • Woofer (12" Eminence)
  • Servo Sub

It will have the MTM and a 12 inch servo instead of the Eminence woofer.  The same speakers that are in the Bravo.  The Beast is suppose to have two 12 inch woofers and an MTM made up of the same speakers in the xls encore.

jmimac351

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Re: Rank the Top GR Research Speakers
« Reply #119 on: 19 Sep 2023, 01:27 pm »
What's contributing to the higher, 94dB sensitivity of the M130 / T26 MTM alignment in the Bully speaker compared to the same drivers / MTM alignment in the X-CS Bravo?  The X-CS Bravo shows as 90dB for sensitivity.  Is the wider baffle of the Bully the reason?