Sub $300 headphones

PhilNYC · « **on:** 12 Jan 2007, 04:15 am »

I'm just starting my journey into the world of headphones, and am looking for some suggestions for a good set for $300 or less. Based on some of the forums and reviews I've read, I think I'd like something like a Beyer DT-880 or Sennheiser HD-595. Any opinions here on these two? Others I should consider? I'll be using them with a Cayin HA-1A tube (EL84)-based headphone amp.

What I like is something that produces a really rich tone...great on vocals, solo wind and brass instruments, etc. Good, full bass is also appreciated, although bass speed is not the priority. Basically, I want something that is going to provide an intimate-but-full sound...

I've listened to some Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 (admittedly with a poor headphone amp), and was fairly underwhelmed...but was intrigued by a review of the HD595 that said it took the good qualities from the HD650, but put you more in the "front row" (the HD600/650 seemd a bit too detached and distant to my ears).

It's been a while since I've delved into something so completely unfamiliar to me, and I'm starting to re-learn what audio newbies must go through when trying to get a grasp of what's out there...help!!

maxwalrath · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 04:19 am »

This is somewhat lame advice, but I heard the Grado 60's being fed by mp3's from an ipod and was very impressed. For only $69 it couldn't hurt to try...

BradJudy · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 04:51 am »

Phil,

Head-fi is really the place to check out for all things headphone, although it's a massive forum and can be overwhelming.

Right now I own Sennheiser HD-600, Grado SR-225 and Etymotic ER-6. In the past, I had Grado SR-80 and Audio Technica ATH-A900.

I've never tried the Beyer DT-880, but have always wanted to. I tried the Senn 595 at a store and wasn't excited enough to get a pair.

The HD-600 is certainly different if used with a poor amp, but it also isn't a forward sounding headphone. I'm surprised you didn't like it when you say you're looking for an 'intimate but full sound'. It's a very good headphone for the the items you mentioned IMO.

Since you're in NYC, I would expect you could demo a lot of stuff. Heck, Grado is located in town for you.

Scott F. · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 04:58 am »

Phil,

I on the same venture as you. I've listened to the 650's and they were OK(ish). I found them a bit fluffy in the bass. I have a pair of Grado 60's and they are very good for the money. They are a bit bright. If you go one step up to the Grado 80's. they settle down considerably. They are extremely nice for under $100. Lots of detail without being bright or fatiguing. Bass is deep and solid. One thing though, buy the 'soft' earpads for them. The hard ones that come with them are horrible.

I think the next ones I'm going to try are the AKG K 701's. those or mabye the Ultrasone HFI 700's. As I look at their frequency response on the Headfi site, they look pretty close to the Grado 80's that I like so much.

Oh, I'm using the Graham Slee Solo headphone amp (another great deal on the market).

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 06:45 am »

Quote from: maxwalrath on 12 Jan 2007, 04:19 am

This is somewhat lame advice, but I heard the Grado 60's being fed by mp3's from an ipod and was very impressed. For only $69 it couldn't hurt to try...

Phil,

I, too, have the SR-60's and think they are very, very good value. I actually preferred them to the SR-80's (I didn't listen to anything higher end than that in the Grado line as I wanted dual home/travel use).

I sent my 60's to Brad at Revelation Audio Labs for upgrading after owning them for 2 years...and came back with a magnificent sounding headphone in return. The Grado SR-60 drivers are fine 50mm jobbies....the stock cable really is an impediment.

I have heard the Sennheiser 600's and didn't much care for them years ago. I'm far more into Classical and Jazz now...so they may be more to my liking these days. But, back when, I didn't enjoy them at all.

The 60's go for $69...and I think Brad's re-build is another $250.

I read somewhere that Grado came out with a new 'phone recently, around the back of the head version I think, with the same drivers as the SR-60...but $10 less retail.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?cablintr&1171480472 (those are my phones pictured in the ad)

A unexpected bonus was that the cable is far more flexible than stock and lighter. It doesn't get all kinked up over time, either.

Something to consider.....enjoy

SET Man · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 07:09 am »

Hey!

Phil, I've been using my Grado SR60 since 1996

I bought the donut foam cup to replace the original one and it sound better.... although I think the donuts are designed for the larger SR series but they seem to stay on the headphone fine.

Anyway, I'm currently using them with the built in amp in my Akai M8 R2R tape recorder... of which the amps inside are EL84 in SE mode and the combo sound amazing

Believe it or not I used my Grado SR60 as my reference when I was tuning my DIY Single Driver speaker.

Have heard Senn at about the same price forgot the model but I like the SR60 sound better. The best $69 I've ever spend.

I think the SR125 are favorite of one of the Stereophile reviewer I think.

Take care,
Buddy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 07:17 am »

Phil....Check with Aaron and Mike to hear what they might recommend....

I have a pair I can loan you if you'd like....Beyerdynamic DT-990.....Mike reviewed them here......

Chris

djbnh · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 09:43 am »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 12 Jan 2007, 04:15 am

I'm just starting my journey into the world of headphones, and am looking for some suggestions for a good set for $300 or less...I'll be using them with a Cayin HA-1A tube (EL84)-based headphone amp.

What I like is something that produces a really rich tone...great on vocals, solo wind and brass instruments, etc. Good, full bass is also appreciated, although bass speed is not the priority. Basically, I want something that is going to provide an intimate-but-full sound...

I've listened to some Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 (admittedly with a poor headphone amp), and was fairly underwhelmed....

I feel some of your underwhelming experiences with the HD650s may be attributable to the quality of the amp you used (think of any time you ran quality speakers with a subpar or so-so amp; better components generally give better performance). I find these phones do many things right, including classical music and the instrumentation qualities you've mentioned. A caveat is that I use an aftermarket cable - Stefan AudioArt Equinox HD650 Headphone Cable - that will add substantively to the cost and your listening pleasure (improvements in bass impact and precision, soundstaging, detail retrieval are some qualities that come to mind). However, from my experiences I don't feel one absolutely has to pair an aftermarket cable with the HD650 phones. System synergy, in headphone- as well as speakered-systems, is integral to determining your audio pleasure. [I note Head-Fi will have used, extremely well maintained HD650s in the $235-275 range.]

I'm not sure Grados will fit the bill for wind instruments / classical listening unless you go up the price ladder to the RS-1s (wood cupped Grados). Grados are known for the intimacy of their presentation, putting you in the first row or right with the performers; Senns put you some distance back. Grados in your price range seemingly do not deliver a significant soundstage, while Senns will.

I strongly second the suggestion to peruse the Head-Fi forums try PMing various users regarding their respective experiences with headphone pairings / listening preferences with the Cayin HA-1A.

Best of luck with your quest.

boead · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 01:17 pm »

Almost Gone, soon to be discontinued:

Sennheiser HD580 Stereo HiFi Professional Headphones
$125 free shipping, no tax
http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD580-Stereo-Professional-Headphones/dp/B00005S8KM/sr=8-1/qid=1168607921/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1067469-4137640?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

PhilNYC · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 01:46 pm »

Thanks for all the comments/insights so far! I really do feel like a noob here...

But at least I feel like I'm on the right track in terms of the brands I've been learning about (Sennheiser, Beyer, Grado, and AKG seem to come up the most often).

As with everything audio, I know that it's all going to come down to my tastes, synergy with my headphone amp, and my budget...but this is all very helpful. The search continues!

BradJudy · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 02:08 pm »

Phil,

Another note. I have bought a number of items used on the Head-Fi forums. It's a very good place to pick up headphones and used is really the way to go if you're still figuring out what you like. They can be resold right on Head-Fi with little or no loss if you don't like them.

Loftprojection · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 04:05 pm »

Based on your description (great vocals and wind/brass instruments) I would strongly consider the Audio Technica W1000. I'm biased because I own those but I have also compared them to many (Senn 600-650, DT880, AKG271, Sony 5906, Grado SR225, Stax 202, ...) before buying and they came out on top. If you are not in a hurry there is one of those popping up used on head-fi every once in a while at $300 or less. New they are $399 on AudioCubes. They are easy to drive so will sound good whatever amp you are using but obviously they will also sound great with a better amp. Senn or Beyers will not sound good whitout a good amp. They are also very comfy which in my opinion is not the case for Grado. In your list, the DT880 is also a good option, they sound prette nice but not as refined in my opinion then the W1000.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Jan 2007, 04:43 pm »

Phil,

If you want impact and find Sennheiser's underwhelming, I'd listen to Grado's. As others have mentioned, the SR60's are a great value and can be driven off of anything. You will either love or hate the Grado sound, so this is a good option to try them. The phones get more refined as you move up the line. AKG K701's sort of split the difference b/t Senn's and Grado's, but are more refined and have a bigger soundstage. They can also sound drier IMO.

chadh · « **Reply #13 on:** 13 Jan 2007, 03:50 am »

Maybe the AKG K501s would be worth a try. They long had the reputation for having a beautiful midrange and for producing vocals magnificently. The biggest complaint was they were a little light in the bass. The cool thing is that, with the introduction of the 701s, the price of the 501s and the 601s came right down. So I got my 501s for around $115 (same sort of arrangement with the Senn HD580 now).

The 501s (and I presume the 601s and 701s) are also really comfortable (although I hear the audiotechnicas might beat them in that dimension).

By the way, how is the HA-1A? I had my heart set on one of those about 18 months ago, while there seemed no way of getting one in the US (at least with the right voltage). They certainly look sexy. If you could stretch your budget, I wonder how the AKG K1000s would work?

Chad

PhilNYC · « **Reply #14 on:** 13 Jan 2007, 04:02 am »

Quote from: chadh on 13 Jan 2007, 03:50 am

By the way, how is the HA-1A? I had my heart set on one of those about 18 months ago, while there seemed no way of getting one in the US (at least with the right voltage). They certainly look sexy. If you could stretch your budget, I wonder how the AKG K1000s would work?

Chad

Currently, I'm using the HA-1A with a pair of Shure e3c ear-buds, and I really like the way it sounds; great midrange, smooth highs, good bass. Of course, I'm sure I'm not getting nearly as much out of the amp as it is capable of, and I also don't have much to compare it to...so I'm hoping to find some opportunities to do some comparisons soon.

Am currently driving it using a Slim Devices Transporter playing .WAV files....

Magic Robert · « **Reply #15 on:** 13 Jan 2007, 04:13 am »

The Sennheiser 600/650 are not worth putting on your ears without an amp. I run a set of 600's out of an EarMax and the result is marvelous.

If you don't wnat to go the amp route, and you can stand ramming something into your ear, the Ultimate Ears 5's are nothing short of stellar. Midrange is a bit sudued, be everything, including imaging is good. List is over $200, but you can find them for under everyhwere. Lots for sale on head-fi - becuase canalphones are NOT for everyone.

For the music you describe, they would be amazing.

(My ears; my opinions.)

PhilNYC · « **Reply #16 on:** 13 Jan 2007, 04:15 am »

Quote from: Magic Robert on 13 Jan 2007, 04:13 am

The Sennheiser 600/650 are not worth putting on your ears without an amp. I run a set of 600's out of an EarMax and the result is marvelous.

If you don't wnat to go the amp route, and you can stand ramming something into your ear, the Ultimate Ears 5's are nothing short of stellar. Midrange is a bit sudued, be everything, including imaging is good. List is over $200, but you can find them for under everyhwere. Lots for sale on head-fi - becuase canalphones are NOT for everyone.

For the music you describe, they would be amazing.

(My ears; my opinions.)

Thanks...as mentioned, I already have the amp (a Cayin HA-1A) as well as some ear-buds (Shure e3C's)...am hoping to find some over-the-ear headphones as well...

randytsuch · « **Reply #17 on:** 13 Jan 2007, 05:47 am »

Quote from: chadh on 13 Jan 2007, 03:50 am

Maybe the AKG K501s would be worth a try. They long had the reputation for having a beautiful midrange and for producing vocals magnificently. The biggest complaint was they were a little light in the bass. The cool thing is that, with the introduction of the 701s, the price of the 501s and the 601s came right down. So I got my 501s for around $115 (same sort of arrangement with the Senn HD580 now).

The 501s (and I presume the 601s and 701s) are also really comfortable (although I hear the audiotechnicas might beat them in that dimension).

By the way, how is the HA-1A? I had my heart set on one of those about 18 months ago, while there seemed no way of getting one in the US (at least with the right voltage). They certainly look sexy. If you could stretch your budget, I wonder how the AKG K1000s would work?

Chad

Both are discontinued, 501's recently, 1000's for a while longer. They were selling 501's for $100 clearance, killer deal for that can, but they are sold out at that price.

BTW, I have the 501's, DT880, K1000's and K340's, as well as a couple of IEM's. K1000's see the most use, but they are a special can. 501's are currently 2nd, but I am getting a new tube can amp in a week or so, and that may change things. I had a pair of Grado's, the old SR-200 for a while, but sold them, was not for me, but they might sound better with my current amp, or the tube amp I am going to buy.

Randy

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Jan 2007, 09:11 am »

I think the Etymotic Research ER 4P might be a possibility if you can handle in-the-ear phones. They are not as comfortable or convenient as the bigger phones but do have their advantages:

1. very portable, just a small soft pouch holds them
2. major (24 dB) attenuation of outside sounds. great for air travel and the like
3. extremely revealing of recorded detail and true timbres, so you can distinguish oboes from English horns!
4. the "P" model has been freshly re-worked and is designed to be more easily driven and provide a sonic balance more in keeping with most other headphones, particularly as regards bass quantity.

I have owned a pair of Etymotic Research ER 4Ss for 9 years (and the Grado HP 1000s, AKG K100s, AKG 240s, and many others) and, though bass is light (but very extended) in m experience beats any other transducer of any type when it comes to detail retrieval.
Headroom is a good resource:
http://www.headphone.com/products/headphones/all-headphones/etymotic-er-4p.php

aerius · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jan 2007, 08:09 pm »

Quote from: PhilNYC on 12 Jan 2007, 04:15 am

What I like is something that produces a really rich tone...great on vocals, solo wind and brass instruments, etc. Good, full bass is also appreciated, although bass speed is not the priority. Basically, I want something that is going to provide an intimate-but-full sound...

You can take the Beyer 880 right off your list, they have anything but a full rich tone, and I'd probably forget Sennheisers as well. I've heard every Senn out of a Headroom Balanced Max amp and still found them lacking, they're even, smooth and neutral sounding but the tone & richness is lacking. To me they're still too dead and boring sounding, and they always seem to be falling behind the beat of the music. The AKG K701 has similar issues, I find the bass to be way too tight and overdamped and there's not enough weight to the sound. To me it's a studio monitor type headphone and not something I'd want to listen to for fun.

Which leaves Grados, I own the SR225 and I love it. It's anything but neutral, there's a hump in the mid-bass, the bass could go deeper and a spike in the treble somewhere, and overall there's a warm fuzzy colouration to the sound. But the tone is just right, play some blues or female vocals and it just connects, it's got a fabulous rich tone that sucks me right into the music. I've yet to hear anything that does electric guitar better except for the RS-1 and limited edition PS-1. I don't have anything with solo wind instruments so I don't know how it fares with that, but I find it's great with brass, not the last word in detail & resolution but it gives a nice upfront sound with excellent dynamics along with nice tone.

Right now I own the Senn 580, AKG K340, and Grado SR225, the K340 gets most of the use but whenever I need rhythm & drive or want to rock out I break out the 225. It's definitely a love it or hate it sound, you'll either get it or go "what the heck is wrong with this darn thing?!"