[TjMV3]

  Come to think of it, I can see a great opportunity to manufacture $5500 cranial stabilizers!

  Oh man,  that was funny!   Good stuff!


Oh wait,  will that be a brass Cranial Stabilizer or maybe a matrial more exotic?  I think you can jack up that price a bit,  if you consider some other materials.   

[werd]

My only concerns about cables is that they attempt to conduct the signal from the source component without altering it's contents when it reaches the destination component. The normal physical limitations always come into play, capacitance, resistance, induction and shielding.

Other theories or beliefs that support things like cable direction detection and the like just make me scratch my head, wondering how these "theories" gain in popularity.

Wayner

Wayner, the acid test with cables lies in singer voice  coherence. When we talk about cables in terms of bass and treble, or layering or any other of those subjective qualities the subject becomes open to criticism. What becomes obvious is if you can understand and hear the lyrics. This becomes very obvious when you go from crap brand to a better cable(not necessarily price). Its all there and its very easy to localize or point a finger at. I find every type of cable does things to vocals including power, digital and analogue. There is no debate on it either, everybody seems to hear the improvements in voice coherence.

[Brett Buck]

Oddly, no one had claimed the audible superiority of listening with your head locked in a vise...  Come to think of it, I can see a great opportunity to manufacture $5500 cranial stabilizers!

    Agreed, sufficient tightening of the clamp will certainly render the phase variation arising from directional cables moot.

    Note also that audiophile-quality directional cables can be effectively created from cheap mid-fi cables by inserting diodes in series with the signal. Try it and I am sure you will quickly hear the difference. This can also prevent the cryogenically treated electrons from migrating out of the wires and into the components, assuming you install the diodes "back to back" at opposite ends of the cable.

   But most of these sorts of problems are easily and more practically solved with the use of plasti-clay/plastalina. Simply apply the clay, about an inch thick, all over the outside surface of of the listeners head (taking care to avoid the inner surfaces of the ears). All stray mechanical resonances will be damped, and the additional 20+ lbs of mass will effectively stabilize the high-frequency movements of the head. Covering the mouth and nose will ensure that any internal stray cavity resonances are effectively removed.

     One careful listening session (of, say, Mahler's 9th from start to finish) in this configuration will effectively and conclusively prove that this is a complete and permanent solution to interconnect cable controversies!

    Brett

[rodge827]

I've been all over the map with ICs and speaker wire. I'm currently using DNM cables and methinks I'm done!
They are solid core copper with Eichmann connectors.
Check them out here:

http://www.dnm.co.uk/cablesdetail.html#stereointerconnect

Buy them in the US here:

http://www.simplifiaudio.com/complete_systems/dnm/cables.html

http://www.simplifiaudio.com/online_store/store.html

Good luck,

Chris
 

[modular747]

      One careful listening session (of, say, Mahler's 9th from start to finish) in this configuration will effectively and conclusively prove that this is a complete and permanent solution to interconnect cable controversies!

I'm thinking 3 sequential full Ring cycles, head-locked and without intermission or bathroom breaks will pretty much cure any audio misconceptions.

[pansixt]

Covering the mouth and nose will ensure that any internal stray cavity resonances are effectively removed.
    Brett

In addition this will counter the negative affects stemming from the differences in material one may have in the fillings in ones teeth. Should one have these.
Fillings or teeth.

[modular747]

There is no debate on it either, everybody seems to hear the improvements in voice coherence.

There is no debate that everyone can't hear the difference when truly blinded to the identity of the cable in the system, and not under the influence of suggestion and marketing pressure.  No better that 50% probability of distinguishing between any 2 cables.

Although not audio related, this study using vinegar adulterated beer shows just how powerfully suggestion alters our perceptions:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/brainiac/2007/01/im_a_sucker_for.html

[werd]

There is no debate that everyone can't hear the difference when truly blinded to the identity of the cable in the system, and not under the influence of suggestion and marketing pressure.  No better that 50% probability of distinguishing between any 2 cables.

Although not audio related, this study using vinegar adulterated beer shows just how powerfully suggestion alters our perceptions:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/brainiac/2007/01/im_a_sucker_for.html

Blind testing is the audio equivalent of the pea and shell game. It doesn't belong in the hobby and is poor eg of people's listening capability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFLa_tl4Rk0

[festuss]

 
  mcmelectronics.com  or    partsexpress.com   cables and connectors perfect.  Why pay more, cus you ain't getting any better sound.  they have stuff that works, is reliable, and priced for mortals

[trackball02]

Anyone have a lot of experience with Virtue Audio cables? Their prices are quite reasonable.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Virtue%20Audio%20Nirvana%20Cables%20Review/VIRTUEAUDIOCABLESREVIEW.htm

Thanks for all of the entertaining comments! 
Jay

[modular747]

Blind testing is the audio equivalent of the pea and shell game. It doesn't belong in the hobby and is poor eg of people's listening capability.

If you need to know the identity of the component you're "listening" to, what you "hear" is entirely within you, and the "capability" you think it shows is actually your suggestibility. 

Your analogy to a shell game is particularly lame since a skilled observer always finds the pea...  If blind testing were actually like a shell game, the skilled listener would always pick the right cable.

[Brett Buck]

Blind testing is the audio equivalent of the pea and shell game. It doesn't belong in the hobby and is poor eg of people's listening capability.

   ????????  Why is that? Because it makes the "elvin magic and unicorns" audio theories seem phony?

     Brett

[werd]

If you need to know the identity of the component you're "listening" to, what you "hear" is entirely within you, and the "capability" you think it shows is actually your suggestibility. 

Your analogy to a shell game is particularly lame since a skilled observer always finds the pea...  If blind testing were actually like a shell game, the skilled listener would always pick the right cable.

No, in fact my point lies right in your own reponse. It requires a skilled listener to do abx tests. IOW if you want to get good at doing abx tests practice doing abx tests. No one does that so how can you expect anyone to be any good at it. Everybody i know  keeps their system in a "static no change environment". They throw a different cable in and they hear a difference. This is how they conduct their hobby, its how they have trained their ears and brain to listen to music. You can't expect somebody who has spent most of their life passively developing this skill  to all the sudden become experts in random changes on the fly and identifying sonic alterations. Its just not how we are.

Its just like anything else, if you want to get good at it you have to practice at... after all its a test remember....

[modular747]

No, in fact my point lies right in your own reponse. It requires a skilled listener to do abx tests.

I never said anything about "abx tests."  Blind testing can be done in many ways and involve long term (hours) listening on a familiar system, room and source material.  It doesn't require any special "skill" relating to the process.

Abx tests are a convenient way to do large scale studies and have the advantage of being double-blind.  However, it isn't how we listen to music.

The fact remains, no matter how the blind testing is conducted, no matter how "skilled" the listener, there is no evidence that anyone can reliably identify a particular interconnect cable in the system, or distinguish between 2 cables, even when the choices are between the flimsiest Radio Shack and  $1000/meter models.

There are exceptions where cable identification can be reliable.  Long runs of cable in high EMF or RF environments will reveal better shielding.  Long runs of high capacitance cable used with high output impedance sources will produce audible hf roll off.  Likewise phono interconnects can have audible f/r effects depending on the cartridge.

[davidrs]

Jay (trackball),

If you are curious about the Paul Speltz Anti-cables, let me know. I have a pair and you are welcome to a short loan.

PM me if interested.

- David.

[werd]

I never said anything about "abx tests."  Blind testing can be done in many ways and involve long term (hours) listening on a familiar system, room and source material.  It doesn't require any special "skill" relating to the process.

Abx tests are a convenient way to do large scale studies and have the advantage of being double-blind.  However, it isn't how we listen to music.

The fact remains, no matter how the blind testing is conducted, no matter how "skilled" the listener, there is no evidence that anyone can reliably identify a particular cable in the system, or distinguish between 2 cables, even when the choices are between the flimsiest Radio Shack and  $1000/meter models.

Give me any two cables and give me 3 months. Come into my house and do all the testing you want i will give you 100%. Not just me but anyone else thats interested in the hobby.

[modular747]

Give me any two cables and give me 3 months. Come into my house and do all the testing you want i will give you 100%. Not just me but anyone else thats interested in the hobby.

Since you know that the testing scenario you proposed is logistically impossible for me to perform (and in fact nothing you actually participated in), your prediction of the results is just idle boasting.

Since you claim "anyone interested" can do it, show me just 1 published study confirming this ability. 

[werd]

Since you know that the testing scenario you proposed is logistically impossible for me to perform (and in fact nothing you actually participated in), your prediction of the results is just idle boasting.

Since you claim "anyone interested" can do it, show me just 1 published study confirming this ability.

Just to clarify when i said "anybody else in this hobby" i meant any body will get 100% percent not just me, i see how that was unclear.. my bad.  Your stance in the last post shows how blind tests are skewd. People conduct these tests outside of the paramters of the what can be expected from people to do well. My 3 month time period puts the testing back in the hobbiest ballpark. As  you pointed out it's unrealistic (i agree) so therefore testing doesn't belong in the hobby.

[werd]

Its also worth pointing out that proponents of blind testing mis-inform the public. The way the tests are conducted suggests that humans have some type  of super human (like falcon) hearing. They suggest that the human hearing is extremely developed and since they average the test it somehow proves that there are no differences in things like cable quality or whatever.  Like i said the longer you spend with the cables the higher the tests score will be. Whats that tell ya.

[modular747]

Like i said the longer you spend with the cables the higher the tests score will be. Whats that tell ya.

Since you've never done any blind testing, there's absolutely no way you can say that.  No doubt, you do believe you hear differences, but there's no evidence that what you hear has anything to do with the physical properties of the cable.  Your perceptions REQUIRE that you know the identity of the cable you're evaluating.

Also, I never said that to hear these things requires superhuman hearing.  Indeed, what is being heard has nothing at all to do with hearing ability...  It is related to experience and expectations.