[modular747]

The 'return leg' is another term for the negative run or the ground wire. Some Interconnect manufacturers offer slightly different compositions between the positive and negative wires.

There are no "positive and negative wires" in interconnect or speaker wires carrying audio signals (which are AC).  With interconnects, the shield (or ground wire as you put it) doesn't carry ANY signal at all - its purpose is to shield the signal carrying wire from RF and hum field interference.  The active signal is completed to ground at both ends of the connection.

It's this complete ignorance of basic electronics that's the fodder for the complete gibberish the audiophile cable manufacturers  spew out in their marketing depts.  It gets eaten up and parroted as fact. 

If any of it were true, they all would be candidates for Nobel prizes by showing that the laws of physics are not universal, and that their cables were controlled by physical laws found nowhere else in the known universe.

[Wayner]

Some cables have the shield omitted from one end in the hopes of retarding ground loops.

Wayner

[modular747]

Some cables have the shield omitted from one end in the hopes of retarding ground loops.

Regardless, the shield doesn't carry any audio signal, and its composition is irrelevant as long as there is effective shielding.  The single ended termination doesn't help much with ground loops.  In fact, it was first promoted (by Monster Cable) >25 years ago in cables that are supposed to be "directional", i.e it "sounds better" if a specific end is attached to the audio source.  Unfortunately, no one told the electrons that they have directional properties (except in Monster Cables, of course).

[Wayner]

I think the idea was to keep the connected shield end always at the end source (preamp), but yes (I agree). Moral of the story is to buy affordable, well built (shielded) cables, and be done with it. Frank uses cheap Radio Shack style cables.

Wayner

[trackball02]

Concerning directional interconnects. What is all that about? Why are some brands directional and other not? What happens if one inserts it backwards?

[modular747]

Moral of the story is to buy affordable, well built (shielded) cables, and be done with it. Frank uses cheap Radio Shack style cables.

That's right.  Cables should be designed to make solid, stable connections, without damaging the equipment with excessive stiffness or clamping.  They also should be rugged and not break or fray with movement and reconnections.  Ideally, color coding is helpful to avoid connection errors and keep tract of routing.  The Blue Jeans cables have all of these qualities.

[modular747]

Concerning directional interconnects. What is all that about? Why are some brands directional and other not? What happens if one inserts it backwards?

The point is that "directional" cables are nonsense, and it really makes no difference (or random difference) how they are installed. 

I proved this to myself many years ago when they were first promoted.  I had a friend who swore he could consistently hear the difference when the cable "direction" was changed.  The "correct" direction was indicated by a taped on label with a printed arrow.  Unbeknownst to him, I pealed off the labels and reattached them in reverse.  His preferred "direction" was always determined by the label, not the actual connection.

[trebejo]

Last time I heard about this, the electrons in a wire are modelled as a gas. Electromagnetic fields cause the cloud to drift, and a wave ensues at speeds comparable to the speed of light. It's NOT like water pipes.

To make a cable directional--i.e., such that it conducts differently depending on direction--is quite the task. I would leave it to those that are going to get themselves a Nobel prize for achieving the task; however, over on audiogon you will find others that have passed up on the Nobel prize for the far more important goal of giving other audiophiles the prized directional cables for a mere $N,000 apiece.

Yes, of course, science is a sequence of discoveries and it is quite likely that we do not know everything about wires yet. I just find it impossible to accept that the new frontier will be presented to us by a guy that mysteriously charges $N,000/hour to make an interconnect cable in his garage, when there are electrical power plants all over the planet that could use his amazing intellect.

[rez]

  to BJC - I've bought interconnects and various DVI and HDMI cables from them and their shipping cost to Canada via fedex (which includes customs) is the best of any.   Also, great quality for the price imo.

[pansixt]

Welcome Trackball,
You got some great input.
I'm always learning.

And it sure was fun to watch.

James

[TjMV3]

RAM Electronics makes custom-sized cables and is less expensive than BJC on specific products (Belden).  They also have a larger variety of connectors, IIRC, and I have found delivery to be faster.   They also sell a lot of other stuff, which can reduce shipping costs, which has been lower than BJC.  I use cables from both vendors but will also consider the above-posted recommendations.

Happy Valentine's Day.   

+1

And Larry is a great guy to speak with. 

I have several of their speaker cables and interconnects.  They work beautifully. 

No,  they don't create magical audiophile fairies.

[trackball02]

James,
This has been both informative and entertaining. I got a lot of leads on how to get great cost effective interconnects. Thanks everyone. This Board is awesome!

I’m tempted to collect and /or borrow a few different interconnects from my current throwaways, bjc and/or RAM and something really high end, and do a blinded comparison. It will be an eye opener for me.

It will be a few weeks for me to get my Avastar and Ultravalve.  The Avastar I’m getting is lightly used and Ultravalve will be brand new. This is off the topic, but is there a break in time required for the Ultravalve?
Jay

[trebejo]

It will be a few weeks for me to get my Avastar and Ultravalve.  The Avastar I’m getting is lightly used and Ultravalve will be brand new. This is off the topic, but is there a break in time required for the Ultravalve?

Frank is not a fan of the break-in theories, you'll read plenty of that in other threads (as long as they were not sent in flames to the waste bin ). Tubes and speakers are the exception, but in any case, your ultravalve should sound great as soon as you get it. Like all tube gear, though, when you turn it on give it about half an hour for it to start sounding its best.

In any case, I think you're in for a treat!

[pansixt]

Yep, I agree completely.
After 30 to 45 minutes my Dyna sounds wonderful
The AVA Vision DAC came Friday and the more I listen the better it sounds.
Surely that's just me getting better at listening.
James

[werd]

Last time I heard about this, the electrons in a wire are modelled as a gas. Electromagnetic fields cause the cloud to drift, and a wave ensues at speeds comparable to the speed of light. It's NOT like water pipes.

To make a cable directional--i.e., such that it conducts differently depending on direction--is quite the task. I would leave it to those that are going to get themselves a Nobel prize for achieving the task; however, over on audiogon you will find others that have passed up on the Nobel prize for the far more important goal of giving other audiophiles the prized directional cables for a mere $N,000 apiece.

Yes, of course, science is a sequence of discoveries and it is quite likely that we do not know everything about wires yet. I just find it impossible to accept that the new frontier will be presented to us by a guy that mysteriously charges $N,000/hour to make an interconnect cable in his garage, when there are electrical power plants all over the planet that could use his amazing intellect.

Hello

You need to refer to Wayner's previous post on the topic. Its about grounding. Its more about preventing buzz in a grounding strategy than fooling your buddy into thinking their is a difference in sound...... 

[trebejo]

Hello

You need to refer to Wayner's previous post on the topic. Its about grounding. Its more about preventing buzz in a grounding strategy than fooling your buddy into thinking their is a difference in sound...... 

I see. I was talking about the OTHER fallacy theory about cabling, which states that you should always point them in the same direction since that is how they are broken in once they are broken in.

Alas, the fallacies theories are multiplying faster than the vocabulary, which causes some overlap. That's a pattern that applies in a broader context than just audiocircles...

[Wayner]

My only concerns about cables is that they attempt to conduct the signal from the source component without altering it's contents when it reaches the destination component. The normal physical limitations always come into play, capacitance, resistance, induction and shielding.

Other theories or beliefs that support things like cable direction detection and the like just make me scratch my head, wondering how these "theories" gain in popularity.

Wayner

[martyo]

My only concerns about cables is that they attempt to conduct the signal from the source component without altering it's contents when it reaches the destination component. The normal physical limitations always come into play, capacitance, resistance, induction and shielding.

Other theories or beliefs that support things like cable direction detection and the like just make me scratch my head, wondering how these "theories" gain in popularity.

Wayner

Nice post Wayne.

[rcag_ils]

Other theories or beliefs that support things like cable direction detection and the like just make me scratch my head, wondering how these "theories" gain in popularity.

Cable direction theories may not apply to audio, but it's important in RF antenna transmitting pattern that involves phasing. The theories based on how the cables were manufactured in the factory. Out in the field, we like to keep everything consistant, after we reel the cable off the reel, we make sure to use cable off the same reel when possible, made by the same manufacturer, and yes, their label on the insolation face the same direction. Would mix and match cable work for our purpose? Probably will, but we would have to spend a lot more time optimizing the cable to get the precise antenna transmitting pattern we want.

I see. I was talking about the OTHER fallacy theory about cabling, which states that you should always point them in the same direction since that is how they are broken in once they are broken in

It's no fallacy, freq dependent signal does travel down the cable at different time and it's measureable with a scope. We do let the cable break in overnight, when we go back to the site the next day, the antenna pattern change, after a few days, the pattern stablize and stay the same for a very long time.

How all this tied in with audio, I don't really know.

[modular747]

How all this tied in with audio, I don't really know.

That's because it  isn't.  None of these effects are applicable to audio frequencies, not even theoretically.  The phasing and timing differences are overwhelmed by orders of magnitude just by moving your head 1mm relative to your speakers, not to mention all the phase and timing distortion created by the speakers themselves . 

Oddly, no one had claimed the audible superiority of listening with your head locked in a vise...  Come to think of it, I can see a great opportunity to manufacture $5500 cranial stabilizers!