My First Topic-What to Do

1oldguy · « **Reply #360 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 03:59 am »

Hi James

I just picked up My 2nd Bryston Cd player....... A True Gem of Audiophile gear without doubt.

I Would like to ask if it is possible to swap 2 of the unopened amps I have for 2 of the Consumer versions?
I did read somewhere here on the Forums about the pro versions adding noise to the signal path and the it would be better to go the consumer route for that reason.Maybe you could go into some detail ab about this.

Thanks James

James Tanner · « **Reply #361 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 01:22 pm »

Quote from: 1oldguy on 15 Dec 2009, 03:59 am

Hi James

I just picked up My 2nd Bryston Cd player....... A True Gem of Audiophile gear without doubt.

I Would like to ask if it is possible to swap 2 of the unopened amps I have for 2 of the Consumer versions?
I did read somewhere here on the Forums about the pro versions adding noise to the signal path and the it would be better to go the consumer route for that reason.Maybe you could go into some detail ab about this.

Thanks James

Hi Oldguy,

As long as the gain controls are fully up they would perform the same as the consumer version. I will let you know if a studio wants 7B's going forward and maybe move them that way for you.

james

1oldguy · « **Reply #362 on:** 15 Dec 2009, 01:38 pm »

Thanks You James

1oldguy · « **Reply #363 on:** 24 Dec 2009, 02:32 am »

Interesting as I just finished a review of the B&W 802D,One I hadn't seen before.At any rate when it got to talking about the Bass of the speakers the reviewer said that bass would be no greater than a bookshelf speakers on a lot of material.But instead of this being a negative it was refered to as a positive since many speakers give a false sense of frequency exaggerating bass and the mids to sound bigger.
In the short time I did use it there was a clarity that I felt missing once I hook up my old system.But that would be expected I think.

Mag · « **Reply #364 on:** 24 Dec 2009, 10:01 am »

Haven't heard 802D so don't know what you're hearing.
I bought a pair of headphones once that had no bass and would rattle on low frequencies. Exchanged them for another brand which had plently of bass. It was possible the previous pair needed a headphone amp, I dunno.

I was playing my stereo for a friend and he said it needed more bass. I was puzzled since there was no shortage of bass with all the speakers I have hooked up. So I adjusted the bass tone control to +3 and he gave me the okay sign.

Maybe you just need a pre with tone controls or speakers that emphasize the bass rather than clean bass. Clean bass takes some time to adjust to and perhaps you're not there yet. But I think perhaps eventually overtime listening to high quality gear you will prefer clean bass as over-emphasized bass becomes tiring if you listen to music 30 to 50 hours per week.

1oldguy · « **Reply #365 on:** 24 Dec 2009, 12:36 pm »

Hi Mag

I find I tire of over-emphasized bass as soon as I hear it.My brothers system is pretty bad for that,2 or 3 min and i'm done when he has it on.Your also right about it growing on me.I'd rather go with good clean lean bass any day rather than over blown frequencies.

budt · « **Reply #366 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 08:45 am »

I have had my 802Ds for about 4-5 months now.Everyone says the tweeter is the main improvement over the old model but imo the tweeter is the main problem in the new design. I noticed 2 problems with them; 1) they are somewhat veiled in the upper midrange/lower high frequency area and 2) The ATTACK seems to be missing. I am guessing the tweeter mass is too great but this is just a guess.
They do have a major plus though. As they are somewhat veiled I can listen to all my recordings and they sound good-very good but nothing sounds spectacular. I think this may have been a deliberate trade off on the design as the previous version was known to be extremely revealing( I know I had them).These speakers are very different.
Even my old 801 series 3 were more revealing and had much better attack.

1oldguy · « **Reply #367 on:** 26 Dec 2009, 02:00 pm »

Hi Budt

It is interesting to hear your thoughts on the 800 Series,the 802D in particular.
You mention the 802D being veiled.I too, when I A/B them, (Get this) against this my Sony Bookshelf speakers that are 15 years old,when playing Tightrope by The Electric Light Orchestra was really taken back when I had to strain to hear how low in the mix the cello and Violins were berried on the 80d's compare with the meager sony speakers.Veiled,you betcha.But to their credit the 802D are more open in some other ways.
I too feel that spectacular isn't the word I would use to describe the 802's.Maybe in their next revision they will deal with these issues.I have heard they will be using stronger magnets for starters.That might help with the attack you mention.
My over all impression of the 802D, regardless if a CD is recorded well or not, appears to me if certain frequencies excite the speaker then your in luck,it will come through,if not it just sits there.Is it all bad,of course not,but given the nature of B&W's mantra of,"loosing the least" to me is Clearly not the case at all.I would imagine they know they can do much better with the 802D.And soon the new 802D will roll out,It Will be very interesting to compare I'm sure.

1oldguy · « **Reply #368 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 07:35 pm »

Hi JAMES

If I may ask regarding the use of using the balanced or unbalanced connections on the Bryston amps is there any difference in performance?
Also curious about what causes a dip in ohms when listening to speakers.

Thanks James.

James Tanner · « **Reply #369 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 09:44 pm »

Quote from: 1oldguy on 28 Dec 2009, 07:35 pm

Hi JAMES

If I may ask regarding the use of using the balanced or unbalanced connections on the Bryston amps is there any difference in performance?
Also curious about what causes a dip in ohms when listening to speakers.

Thanks James.

Hi,
Balanced Vs Single Ended (RCA) Connections

Like most things in life there is a plus/minus

The plus is Balanced lines prevent any ‘’OUTSIDE’ (RF) interference from affecting the audio noise floor of the ‘system’ through a mechanism called ‘common mode noise reduction’. So no outside contamination. The longer the interconnect the more this applies as the cables are antennas to the outside world – airports, taxis cell phones etc.

The minus is that you have a number of ways to balance a system (IC’s, Transformers, discrete components etc.) and you need a sending and a receiving circuit so you in fact have two more circuits in the signal path. So it could be argued that single ended (RCA) is a more purest approach.

We use fully discrete Class A circuits in all our balanced systems so with our gear. given the horrendous RF clutter out there I would recommend using balanced circuits.

james

1oldguy · « **Reply #370 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 10:14 pm »

Hi James

Wondering if when using RCA if one used Shielded RCA Cables (IF there is such a thing) would this be one way to counteract the negative effects of outside interference?
And maybe if you could touch upon why speakers dip in ohms?

Again thanks

werd · « **Reply #371 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 10:55 pm »

Quote from: 1oldguy on 28 Dec 2009, 10:14 pm

Hi James

Wondering if when using RCA if one used Shielded RCA Cables (IF there is such a thing) would this be one way to counteract the negative effects of outside interference?
And maybe if you could touch upon why speakers dip in ohms?

Again thanks

Hi 1oldguy

Its because of the type signal that the speaker sees coming from the amp. Current takes the easiest path, so if the signal is a lower signal (bass register) the speaker's crossover network restricts access to the tweeters and opens up the signal to bass drivers. These devices are larger and can handle more current. This scenario allows the impedance(resistance) to drop and current to flow.

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #372 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 11:07 pm »

Hi

RCA connectors have two pins.

The outer is the shield and is usually (even in free cables) connected to a shield within the cable.

This shield could be a "drain wire", "Foil Shield" or "Braid shield" type.

The center "Signal" or "Hot" pin is the other connection.

So 99% of RCA cables will have a screen.

RE : speaker impedance

Oh Boy ! if you search in google you will fins a number of articles that explain this.......

If you come across an easy to understand brief explaination then that will be the simple form and may not give great detail... but a starting point......

ALL speakers vary and so its not an issue to be concerned about. (Thats a very general over view....)

Andy.

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #373 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 11:25 pm »

Not my words.......

"In a speaker, impedance is made up of the DC resistance
of the copper wire in the voice coil, plus the AC "reactance"
of the inductive effects from that same wire being in the
form of a coil (with an iron core), plus the mechanical
reactance due to the spring in the suspension and the
mass of the moving cone. The reactance part varies
with frequency, and actual speaker impedance typically
has a big peak around resonance, or two peaks one
on either side for tuned designs (like those with ports
or passive drivers)."

my words......

So although a speaker might drop to below 1 ohm is it also possible to hit 40+ as well but usually around the given figure.

1oldguy · « **Reply #374 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 11:45 pm »

I wonder since the ohms can very so much, how does one as a manufacturer figure out how many ohms a given set of speakers are since it jumps around so much?

Mad Mr H · « **Reply #375 on:** 28 Dec 2009, 11:53 pm »

Its a nominal value,

If you are looking at one entire speaker cabinet with a 30Hz to 20000Hz+

then the "issue" points are very few, for the main of that range its fairly stable.

The figures given on speakers industry accepted and usually limited to 4 / 8 / 16 ohm options for ease of specification......

Andy.

NewBuyer · « **Reply #376 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 04:23 am »

Just to add to what James said above:

Balanced connections are also highly preventative against ground-loop current flowing through your signal wires, which is otherwise nearly always happening to some degree when using unbalanced line-level connections.

1oldguy · « **Reply #377 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 03:54 pm »

What are the side effects of ground-loop current.Possible damage to gear?I do know that the speakers tries to reject and send back the signal being sent to it.Is this what your referring to?
Thanks

NewBuyer · « **Reply #378 on:** 30 Dec 2009, 02:28 am »

Quote from: 1oldguy on 29 Dec 2009, 03:54 pm

What are the side effects of ground-loop current.Possible damage to gear?I do know that the speakers tries to reject and send back the signal being sent to it.Is this what your referring to?
Thanks

I'm referring not to speaker (high-level) connections, but to signal (line-level) connections. Perhaps a good place to start would be to read up at the Jensen Transformers site - perhaps starting with their FAQ's (link), then also reading the white papers (at same site) for more detailed info...

1oldguy · « **Reply #379 on:** 30 Dec 2009, 12:57 pm »

I would prefer to buy a pre with Balanced connections but it would appear that my only real option if I go with Bryston would be the SP3 and the cost of at least 8000.00 dollars right now and for a good while perhaps is a little daunting to say the least.It would be great if Bryston could offer a no frills version with xlr.I'm sure there are others who would buy such a unit if it were made.