The Airing of the Grievances

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turkey

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #40 on: 17 Apr 2009, 03:40 pm »
I'll start.

I can not figure out why there are so many diverging opinions on "Best Sound at The Show"

james


Part of this is that "Best Sound at The Show" may not really be very good at all when you consider the rooms the systems are in. It then becomes a case of "who sucked the least?" and there can be a lot of disagreement over that.

I think the other part is that too many people aren't looking for a system that accurately reproduces recorded sound. They're looking for all kinds of other things, and there are plenty of manufacturers who cater to those desires.


Laundrew

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #41 on: 13 May 2009, 01:27 am »
I would say that my major disappointment also concerns the attitudes (perhaps a better word would be “arrogance“) that I have experienced at some audio retail stores. I do not understand why some individuals display open contempt to brands that they do not sell and use high pressure sales tactics. This type of representation in the audio equipment retail industry leaves a “sour taste" in one's mouth.

I visited one store and the sales representative was actually calling another manufacturers equipment sh*t, all this while he was standing in front of $40k worth of audio equipment. I was actually shocked by his conduct and lack of professionalism. I phoned another store and I was making an inquiry about a CD player, the sales representative inquired as to the power amplifier I was going to use and when I told her, she gave me a “disgusted sigh” over the phone and said, “you can do much better than those.” I asked her if she had ever auditioned this amplifier? “Um no,” was her reply. I thanked her for her assistance and offered her a polite good-bye. It is not my intent to “bash” sales representatives - at some point, they must realize that they are driving away potential customers and are losing sales that can easily be in the range of tens of thousands of dollars.

I have also experienced excellent sales representatives on the other side of this issue. Very professional and openly honest opinions (they also did not “talk down to you“). A few representatives told me that they will show me Brand A and Brand  B, inform me of the “pros” of each brand and at the end of the day, it is my decision.
Definitely a breath of fresh air. :thumb:

Regards…

23bw

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #42 on: 29 May 2009, 12:07 am »
One of my peeves is manufacturers/retailers often frown "USED" equipment or the people who primarily shop for used gear.  I constantly hear comments like there will be no warranties and we won't service it too.  This point is well understood because I'll assume that risk if I can save up to 50% from buying new.   Without people buying up the used gear, people who buy new will not be buying again for quite some time.   

Not long ago I was looking to buy a replacement driver for a speaker I bought used.  The speaker company's CS rep said they won't sell me the driver because I'm not the original owner.  Keep in mind I'm not asking for warranty.  All I simply wanted was to pay full price for a replacement driver.  Luckily someone else with common sense eventually helped me out with my order.   

So give us guys who see great value in used gear a little break.  Bryston seems to be the most used gear friendly manufacturer which is one reason why I'm fond of this brand. 

Stu Pitt

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #43 on: 29 May 2009, 01:11 am »
That speaker company wouldn't happen to be Totem, would it?  They're great to people who buy from authorized dealers - new and used.  Buy from someone on Audiogon or the like, and they'll ignore you.

Totally agree with Bryston being the best used-friendly manufacturer.  Had they not been, I definitely wouldn't have bought my B60.  My next Bryston piece won't be second hand.

23bw

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #44 on: 29 May 2009, 05:18 pm »
That speaker company wouldn't happen to be Totem, would it?  They're great to people who buy from authorized dealers - new and used.  Buy from someone on Audiogon or the like, and they'll ignore you.

Stu, it wasn't Totem.  I'll leave them unamed as requested by James in the original post.   My speakers were from Audiogon and they indeed wanted to ignore me like you said. 

drummermitchell

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #45 on: 29 May 2009, 06:56 pm »
What pisses me off is when supposedly a dealer gives you his undivided attention,(and you have dealt with them quite abit)
Another customer comes in all slicked up suit ect.and the sales guy abruptly
cuts you off and puts his attention to this other customer.
Simply IGNORANT,he must of perhaps seen potential for big dollars.
I walked out and the sales guy asked what was wrong.I told him you should be taking care of business with the person you are dealing with at the moment,
not sluff off a small steady customer for some a perhaps one big sale.
My little sales add up to quite a bit of coin.THERE,I's BETTER NOW.
The same goes for inquiring about products over e-mail,or they won't get back to you.I know a few that won't give you the time off day,here's what I say, you lose.I E-mail em back and let them know that I went with Bryston,
not only is the product SUPERB,but so is their SERVICE and I even let these yahoos know about it.I use to ask companies for brouchers(REL)do you think they would send me any(NOT)so I went with Velodyne.Bryston sent me everything they had on all there products and I only asked for a broucher on
their 10Bsub X-over. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Stu Pitt

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #46 on: 29 May 2009, 07:50 pm »
I apologize for the long post, but I think you guys will get a kick out of it.

I can't stand the dealers that ignore what you tell them you want, and instead tell you want you want.  There's one such dealer about 5 minutes away from my house.  I've been there 3 times, and will never step foot in there again, especially after the last fiasco.  Allow me to elaborate...

The first time I went in, I wanted to hear the NAD 320BEE.  I called ahead to confirm they had one on the floor and asked what else they had.  The person was very nice and said come in any time.  When I showed up, there was a different guy (the owner) who apparently had more important things to do.  We were the only ones there.  He tried to get me to buy a Marantz stereo receiver instead, saying that "At that level, they all sound the same.  They sound like garbage.  Pick the cheapest one with the most features and be done with it."  I asked "Why do you sell garbage?"  "Because not everyone can afford a McIntosh."

The second time I went in, I was looking to upgrade the whole system, and he had a good variety of stuff on the floor.  I was hesitant to go, but rationalized it by thinking everyone has a bad day.  I asked about Creek, Arcam, and Rega, which he carried.  He brought me into a room and sat me down in front of a Mac separates and speakers system which retailed for about a total of $20k.  I was looking to spend about $3k before speakers.  His response - "Put the 3 grand towards the pre-amp, then get the amp, then the CD player, then get the speakers."  My response - Thanks for your time.  I walked by the gear I was interested in on the way out.

Third time -
I was interested in hearing Audio Physic speakers.  He was the only guy who had them within 50 miles.  After I heard just about everything everywhere else, I broke down and went to his shop.  I figured if I asked for the specific model by name, he had to let me hear them.  After asking me some relevant questions, he brought me into the room with the Mac system.  He connected Revel Concerta towers.  They couldn't be more the opposite of the Yara bookshelves.  I told him I wanted the Yaras, he left the room and brought in B&W towers (683?).  His response - "These are smaller than the Revels."  After humoring him for a few minutes, I asked again for the Yaras.  He brought me into a room and played Maggies.  I asked for the Yaras again. He said "I can hook them up, but you don't want them."  Without saying anything, I walked out, right passed the Yaras.

I then went to the other shop he owned by the same name about 20 miles away (I was in the area anyway).  The gentleman there had them hooked up and let me hear them.  He was a very nice guy; the opposite of the owner.  I felt guilty about hearing them knowing there was no way I was going to give the owner a dime.  I told him the story and apologized for wasting his time.  His response "I'd do the same thing."

I ended up calling the next closest dealer and tried to have them ship me a pair.  He knew exactly who I was dealing with about 30 seconds into the story.  He couldn't ship me a new pair due to territory restrictions, but he had a fresh demo pair that he could sell me.  Full warrantee and he also gave me a free pair of stands.

The first guy represents everything that's wrong with the business.  Others may not be on his level, but a lot do it to some extent.  I have bought more stuff from the guy I bought the Yaras from.  He's always been a pleasure to deal with.

Glad I got that off my chest.

drummermitchell

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #47 on: 29 May 2009, 08:48 pm »
Amazing what being a little nice will do for a business or even on a personal level.
A small purchase can and does evetually turn into big bucks.nice one Stu.

vegasdave

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #48 on: 29 May 2009, 10:02 pm »
Dealers should take note regarding these testimonies.

Stu Pitt

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #49 on: 30 May 2009, 03:12 am »
On a positive note...

I wandered in to a shop one day while my wife was shopping in a store a few doors down.  I had no idea what they had, and just went in to browse.  They had the most high end stuff I've ever seen, and all in one place.  When the owner asked me if I was being helped, I politely said "I wish you could, but I can't afford anything you sell."  He returned the smile and said "Neither can I."  He handed me a remote and said "Have fun, I'm going to eat lunch in the office."

The remote was for a Halcro and Verity system.  Total price between components, speakers, wiring and everything else - about $250k.  After he was done eating, we had a great conversation about everything audio for about a half hour.  I promised I'd be back when I win the lottery.  Hopefully I'll be able to keep that promise.

robb

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #50 on: 30 May 2009, 03:49 am »
Hi

Just had to say I have NEVER had a bad experience with ANY of the high end dealers and their employees in the Chicagoland area--and this has been over the course of 25+ years.  They have all been extremely helpful, very willing to let you take equipment home to audition, and still were friendly even if you didn"t buy anything at the time. All were most happy to take trade-ins for newer equipment

Most of my equipment never has required repair.

Recently my Bryston 4b-nrb needed repair after 18years of service, and of course, true to Bryston's reputation, was returned good as new in ten business days.

rob

vegasdave

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #51 on: 30 May 2009, 06:15 am »
On a positive note...

I wandered in to a shop one day while my wife was shopping in a store a few doors down.  I had no idea what they had, and just went in to browse.  They had the most high end stuff I've ever seen, and all in one place.  When the owner asked me if I was being helped, I politely said "I wish you could, but I can't afford anything you sell."  He returned the smile and said "Neither can I."  He handed me a remote and said "Have fun, I'm going to eat lunch in the office."

The remote was for a Halcro and Verity system.  Total price between components, speakers, wiring and everything else - about $250k.  After he was done eating, we had a great conversation about everything audio for about a half hour.  I promised I'd be back when I win the lottery.  Hopefully I'll be able to keep that promise.

Cool! What city are you in?

You're gonna buy Bryston again if you win the lottery, right?

mitcho

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #52 on: 31 May 2009, 03:54 pm »
dislike

1-  dealers who do not carry demo equipment and expect us to buy sight unseen.   I might as well purchase on the internet if I can't try the model..

2-  dealers who insist on payment up front prior to ordering.  I do that, but it is a sore point.   There is no incentive for them to get it to you since they have your money.

I have come across a number like the above over the years.  None recently, but I have encountered them over the years.  I know of one out of business now.
« Last Edit: 1 Jun 2009, 05:19 pm by mitcho »

robb

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #53 on: 1 Jun 2009, 01:46 am »
VegasDave

Now I live in Dallas Texas, but lived all the time previously in the Chicagoland area.

Dallas has a few great dealers, but alas, no Bryston

rob

Phil A

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #54 on: 1 Jun 2009, 03:00 am »
VegasDave

Now I live in Dallas Texas, but lived all the time previously in the Chicagoland area.

Dallas has a few great dealers, but alas, no Bryston

rob

Have you checked Bryston's site for a list of dealers?

TEXAS
Avid 1 Limited
6202 Bissell Rd.
Manuel, TX 77578
Ph: 281-489-3730
http://www.avid1.net

    
Design Engineering Group
HiFi/Home Cinema
3004 Canton Street
Dallas, TX
75226
Ph: 214-742-1540

Media Systems Inc.
5913 Washington Ave.
Houston, TX 77007
Ph: 713-426-0900
Fax: 713-426-0924
info@houstonmediasystems.com

    
Sound World
9788 Bellaire Blvd. Suite #C
Houston, TX 77036
Ph: 713-778-9120
Fax: 713-778-9145
sound_world_audio@yahoo.com



vegasdave

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #55 on: 1 Jun 2009, 07:27 pm »
VegasDave

Now I live in Dallas Texas, but lived all the time previously in the Chicagoland area.

Dallas has a few great dealers, but alas, no Bryston

rob

That's cool. Phil cleared that up for ya. But, I was asking Stu. No problem, though.

Stu Pitt

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #56 on: 1 Jun 2009, 09:28 pm »
I live in Irvington, NY.  About 20 miles North of NYC.

The dealer with the Halcro gear is in Mt. Kisco, NY.  I've never seen as much high end gear in one place.  Top of the line Halcro, Wilson, Verity, Levinson and Conrad-Johnson all all on display, to name a few.  He's got more stuff than is listed on his website.  Funny thing is I just found out he's an Audio Physic dealer.  I guess that's another dealer that AP's distributer forgot to tell me about.

Too bad he doesn't carry Bryston.  He does a ton of custom installation stuff, and I figure Bryston would be right up his and his clientle's alley.

vegasdave

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #57 on: 1 Jun 2009, 11:49 pm »
Ok, cool. Sounds great! Yeah, but you do have a Bryston dealer nearby. True?

robb

Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #58 on: 2 Jun 2009, 12:29 am »
Thanks, Phil, for the info, but I knew about that one in Dallas from the Bryston website.  I have attempted to contact several times by phone, but no one returns my calls.  Bryston should remove them from their list of dealers.

James Tanner

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Re: The Airing of the Grievances
« Reply #59 on: 2 Jun 2009, 01:22 am »
Thanks, Phil, for the info, but I knew about that one in Dallas from the Bryston website.  I have attempted to contact several times by phone, but no one returns my calls.  Bryston should remove them from their list of dealers.

Hi Robb,

I will look into this.

james