[ec]

For me it is operational and functional simplicity.  There are only a handful of companies (Bryston being one) that offer a very simple and straight forwared to use product without the "bells and whistles".  I hate equipment with hundreds of buttons where probably only 95% of them probably do not even get used.  On top of this, it is usually the hiigher tiered products that offer the simplicity.  In other words you are paying more for something simple - somewhat ironic. 

Similarly, this carries over to kitchen ranges and in some regards car radio and climate controls as well. The gas ranges with just the burner/oven knobs and a single light (and maybe convection) switch cost a mint (Viking, Wolf, Blue Star etc) where as an entry level gas (or elecric) range has a million buttons and dials that I would not use.  KISS!

[alexone]

some manufacturers make 'highend' a 'highspend'. too sad . i mean this hobby has never been a cheap one. but sometimes it is just unbelievable...

al.

[HT cOz]

Modern tube manufactures who can't make tubes that are as good as the old ones. Just seems wrong. 

[1ZIP]

...and yet with the downsides noted with this hobby (and I really believe it's more than a hobby) we continue to spend boat loads of $$s trying to extract just a little more of the "sound".  Actually, given all the rain down here this year I probably would have been better off buying the boat!  My sympathy to the folks in the far North, there also are far fewer HIFI shops down here than there use to be and Bryston is especially difficult to find.  When I bought my BP-26 it was a 230 mile one way trip.  But, worth every mile!

[95Dyna]

Here's a paradox:  The intelligence that it would take to be able to afford a $43K phono preamp (and there is one out there at that price) completely disappears when the transaction takes place.  There is so much out there that is beyond the point of diminishing returns that it requires some serious snake oil salesmen with haughty and arrogant attitudes towards their potential customers to sell any of it.  This combined with dealer unavailability as "werd" described earlier are my two biggest grievances.  Not being able to audition has a one advantage, however.  It forces you to find that optimal price point beyond which a fool and his money are parted.  It's how I eventually zoomed in on Bryston as sitting squarely on that point.

[danman]

I would also add that some of these mega priced manufacturers don't even come close to the Bryston 20 year warantee! How could you sell a 40000$ piece of gear with a 5 - 10 year warantee? At that price it should be lifetime! Makes me sometimes wonder how good some of the stuff out there really is!

[werd]

Here's a paradox:  The intelligence that it would take to be able to afford a $43K phono preamp (and there is one out there at that price) completely disappears when the transaction takes place.  There is so much out there that is beyond the point of diminishing returns that it requires some serious snake oil salesmen with haughty and arrogant attitudes towards their potential customers to sell any of it.  This combined with dealer unavailability as "werd" described earlier are my two biggest grievances.  Not being able to audition has a one advantage, however.  It forces you to find that optimal price point beyond which a fool and his money are parted.  It's how I eventually zoomed in on Bryston as sitting squarely on that point.

Here is another example that backs up your statement Dyna. http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/yg_acoustics_anat_reference_ii_professional_loudspeaker/

The manufacturer calls this the best loudspeaker in the world (or measuring ....whatever). At $107k a pair it can go on being the best loudspeaker in the world.... no one cares.

[Bob in St. Louis]

How about a capacitor that costs $4,860? 
Site < HERE >.

Bob

---discovered recently by one of the guys on the Hawthorne forum.

[werd]

How about a capacitor that costs $4,860? 
Site < HERE >.

Bob

---discovered recently by one of the guys on the Hawthorne forum.

Hey its on sale right now too.....  better pick a couple up.

[Stu Pitt]

While I certainly agree that there's some absurdly priced stuff out there, keep things in context.  What average person wouldn't think any of the following are things only an idiot would buy -

A $2800 CD player - 'I can get a DVD player at Walmart for $50 that'll play CDs and DVDs'  Why get a CD player when you can get an iPod?
A 100x2 Watt amp for $2650 - 'My receiver is 150x7 and it only cost $300'
A $2K pre-amp (remote costs extra and only has 4 buttons) - See receiver; also - 'What's a pre-amp?'
A $2550 phono stage (without power supply)- 'Who the hell listens to records anymore?  They sound like crap'
A $1500 turntable (not including the cartridge, isolation stuff, cleaning stuff, etc.) - See phono stage comments
A pair of $3200 speakers - 'My HTIB system has 7 speakers, a subwoofer, a 150x7 receiver, and a DVD player for $499'
$200/meter interconnects x however many - 'Its a wire'
$5/ foot speakers cables x however many feet - 'Its a wire'

I don't mean this the wrong way, but that system is a BP6, 2BSST, BCD-1, Rega P5 (without cart), BP1.5 (without MPS2), Bryston interconnects and speaker cables, and a pair of PMC GB1i.  Not exactly Bryston's best or most expensive.  I didn't get into stands, power conditioners, power cables, outlets, dedicated circuits, nor room treatments yet.  I'm sure I'm missing a few things.  99% of the people out there would call you an idiot for buying a system like this.  My paraphrased comments aren't an exaggeration.  I've heard them all. 

The following are some of my favorites too -   

'No iPod dock?'
'Bose is the best'
'For $5k it should be so loud it knocks the house down.'
'For $5k it should *&%$ my @#$%.' or any other sexual or house cleaning actions.
'My car's system has way better bass.'

My humble ~$5k system (listed in my signature) is way too overpriced for most people out there.  Most people look at me like I have 3 heads when I tell them I have a $1000 CD player.  Not that I tell too many people.  One of them is a high ranking engineer for Otis elevators who makes about $500k per year.  I make 1/10 of that.  Funny thing is, he's got the top of the line Bose surround system (if there's such a thing) in his basement that cost about what my entire system cost.

In some ways I envy people who have no idea that reproduced music could sound so good.

[Stu Pitt]

For the record, Bryston and PMC gear are worth every penny they charge.

While I'm on the subject of prices...  I think a lot of hifi companies have lost touch with the working class hero such as myself.  Its too bad.  I appreciate a company that builds all its gear in its home country and will not sell out to 3rd world communist country labor just to make a few extra dollars. 

I have the highest respect for companies like Bryston, McIntosh, PMC, and others who follow this business model.  I was going to buy an audio product from a company who is based in the US and claims to manufacture here, but thought their workers were too expensive and started making half their stuff in China.  Labor cost was cut at least in half, but somehow the price stayed the same.  I canceled my order.  I have nothing against China, but I have something against a company who in actions tells their workers they're not worth it.

[alexone]

While I certainly agree that there's some absurdly priced stuff out there, keep things in context.  What average person wouldn't think any of the following are things only an idiot would buy -

A $2800 CD player - 'I can get a DVD player at Walmart for $50 that'll play CDs and DVDs'  Why get a CD player when you can get an iPod?
A 100x2 Watt amp for $2650 - 'My receiver is 150x7 and it only cost $300'
A $2K pre-amp (remote costs extra and only has 4 buttons) - See receiver; also - 'What's a pre-amp?'
A $2550 phono stage (without power supply)- 'Who the hell listens to records anymore?  They sound like crap'
A $1500 turntable (not including the cartridge, isolation stuff, cleaning stuff, etc.) - See phono stage comments
A pair of $3200 speakers - 'My HTIB system has 7 speakers, a subwoofer, a 150x7 receiver, and a DVD player for $499'
$200/meter interconnects x however many - 'Its a wire'
$5/ foot speakers cables x however many feet - 'Its a wire'

I don't mean this the wrong way, but that system is a BP6, 2BSST, BCD-1, Rega P5 (without cart), BP1.5 (without MPS2), Bryston interconnects and speaker cables, and a pair of PMC GB1i.  Not exactly Bryston's best or most expensive.  I didn't get into stands, power conditioners, power cables, outlets, dedicated circuits, nor room treatments yet.  I'm sure I'm missing a few things.  99% of the people out there would call you an idiot for buying a system like this.  My paraphrased comments aren't an exaggeration.  I've heard them all. 

The following are some of my favorites too -   

'No iPod dock?'
'Bose is the best'
'For $5k it should be so loud it knocks the house down.'
'For $5k it should *&%$ my @#$%.' or any other sexual or house cleaning actions.
'My car's system has way better bass.'

My humble ~$5k system (listed in my signature) is way too overpriced for most people out there.  Most people look at me like I have 3 heads when I tell them I have a $1000 CD player.  Not that I tell too many people.  One of them is a high ranking engineer for Otis elevators who makes about $500k per year.  I make 1/10 of that.  Funny thing is, he's got the top of the line Bose surround system (if there's such a thing) in his basement that cost about what my entire system cost.

In some ways I envy people who have no idea that reproduced music could sound so good.

...good input, Stu! but i am sure the Otis engineer has a hobby, too. ask him what it is, let us know and most of us will shake their heads cause he spends a lot for....



al.

[alexone]

I'll start.

I can not figure out why there are so many diverging opinions on "Best Sound at The Show"

james

James,

what do you mean exactly?


al.

[boead]

Elicktum Audio
This is Duelund's flagship interconnect cable. Made entirely by hand using the finest natural materials, including handmade rca plugs and pure silver ribbon conductors. These are the most natural sounding interconnects in the world.
Special Price: $1,800.00
http://www.electrumaudio.com/magento/index.php/cables-cords-wire/duelund-rca-interconnect-2-0-1-5-meter.html

 

[werd]

Elicktum Audio
This is Duelund's flagship interconnect cable. Made entirely by hand using the finest natural materials, including handmade rca plugs and pure silver ribbon conductors. These are the most natural sounding interconnects in the world.
Special Price: $1,800.00
http://www.electrumaudio.com/magento/index.php/cables-cords-wire/duelund-rca-interconnect-2-0-1-5-meter.html

 

i'd actually pay $1800 for an interconnect(we are talking very upper range of what i would normally pay and then some), and there would have to be a good used market also.The used market reduces the risk of the piece . One of the reasons why Bryston gear is so alluring, even with the big expensive power amps. There is always someone who will buy. $ 1800 is still very high but if it does what i am looking for, i might buy it.

[James Tanner]

I'll start.

I can not figure out why there are so many diverging opinions on "Best Sound at The Show"

james

James,

what do you mean exactly?


al.

Hi Al,

I just meant that I find it interesting that when you read a number of reviews/opinions after a specific audio show how varied peoples perceptions can be regarding what they considered to be the 'best sound at the show'.

james

[alexone]

some manufacturers make 'highend' a 'highspend'. too sad . i mean this hobby has never been a cheap one. but sometimes it is just unbelievable...

al.

i may repeat myself here but there's one more thing i want to say...

there is nothing wrong about making money (or call it profit). even if you go to the bakery and buy your daily bread you have to pay.
we are living in a material world- that's just the way it is. and if i would have my own business and would sell worldwide then making profit is a major concern. some may say that the rich are getting richer...but as far as i can calculate this position there is much more behind it. things like research, inventions, investment, testing and last but not least keeping the jobs for all the company's employees
demand a profitable way.
but i do agree that if my local baker would raise the price in an absurd way for the same bread that i always bought from him...then i certainly would not buy it again.

but hey- man doesn't live by bread alone, right???!!!

al.
 

[audio 1]

One thing that always bothers me is the way marketing for things like high definition picture and sound translates to confusion for most consumers.
There is such a lack of service and knowledge at big box retailers and wholesale outlets (where most consumers shop for electronics) that many will never experience the true capability of a 1080p high-def. tv or plasma/lcd set.  Heck so many people don't realize that a high-def. source and proper cables for connection is required to even view what they were sold.  I have personally re-connected several sets for friends who thought that the sticker on the tv was all that was necessary to give them high definition picture.  With Blue Ray becoming the standard for home players the real shame is that most people will never realize what is necessary to tap into the potential of increased audio and video quality.

Connecting systems has always been confusing for the average consumer, but in the past one could buy from a store more often than not where they could get all the help necessary for proper usage.  Now we have more confusion with HDMI set-up issues etc.. and increasing knowledge of current technology is essential, but yet the main source for the equipment is Wal-Mart. 

This basic loss of customer service and proper mainstream retail channels makes it increasingly hard for consumers to have the proper exposure to better quality audio products. This makes it increasingly harder to turn the perceived commodity products in to something that can give some an interest into the passion that drive all of us on this forum.

[avahifi]

Lets see, I will need a total of 22 capacitors to build a solid state phono section including power supply.

At the Duelund $4860 each price, I will need a total of $106,000.00 for the necessary capacitors per unit, and that is not counting the line stage.

Do you suppose that Duelund, like TI and National, will free sample me a set to build a prototype with? 

I think you can guess what my pet peeve is.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[BradJudy]

No grievances about the average sound quality of albums?  Is the music industry too separate from the A/V industry to mention it?  Movie releases get pretty good attention on picture and sound quality, but not audio releases. 

I have similar complaints about dealers - I often say I was pushed towards the direct-sales companies, not pulled.  I was ready to buy a system from a local small shop and then the sales person was a complete jerk to me, so I walked away.  Another local shop consistently wouldn't give me the time of day (something that eventually changed as I got older). 

When shopping with my wife for a wedding ring, we checked out a couple of big name high-end shops in a nicer part of town.  One of them did it right - everyone received excellent and equal service from simple rings to the mother/daughter next to us wanting a diamond tennis bracelet for her sweet 16  .  The other one clearly favored those who appeared more well off or inquired about higher ticket items. 

I also don't like the response at a show of "it would sound much better in a different/bigger/whatever room".  I have started replying something like "that's too bad, my room is just like this."  You know what size room you booked, bring your model best suited for that room size and bring whatever treatments you think you'll need.  Most customers don't have a large, dedicated, perfectly-shaped room.