[Rclark]

Cryo IMO is the most overrated of "upgrades". Especially amusing is cryoing a class d amp. IMO.

[werd]

 

According to this Crown video, the distortion spec is .001 on these Crown drivecore amps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoGvOhGQX5M#t=33

And if you scroll down below the video, one person writes that he retired his Threshold Class A amp after buying a 1500.

Any vid of the Chinese concentration camp they're made in...  ?

[Russell Dawkins]

Cryo IMO is the most overrated of "upgrades". Especially amusing is cryoing a class d amp. IMO.

I say "keep an open mind".

But pay attention. 

[Rclark]

I'm extremely skeptical, especially, considering that the triple cryoed , coathanger stiff straight pure copper speaker wire I own sounds no better than $12 a spool Radio shack speaker wire, on Ncores, reputedly one of the most revealing amps of all time.

I don't expect, IMO, cryoing a class D amp will yield anything but except for those seeking and expecting a result. People chasing unicorns. I could understand maybe cryoing a, say, tube amp, and maybe hearing something different, but this is like freezing a computer and expecting higher megahertz.

[Russell Dawkins]

So, you've had one negative experience with cryo (but you bit in the first place) and now you are dismissing the entire process and all or most other tweaks as unicorn chasing?

Why did you try your speaker wire? In a unicorn chasing mood?

[OzarkTom]

Well, the guy I am sending it too has Cryo'd thousands of items over the last 15 years, and not once, has he ever had a failure. The item has always sounded better. I only have 200 bucks in the amp, so why not? I can always get rid of it on EBay if the Cryo fails.

[srb]

I'm extremely skeptical, especially, considering that the triple cryoed , coathanger stiff straight pure copper speaker wire I own sounds no better than $12 a spool Radio shack speaker wire, on Ncores, reputedly one of the most revealing amps of all time.

That explains it.  No sensible audiophile would triple cryo.  If you're going to cryo at all you do it once.  Get in, cryo, get the hell out.  Everyone knows that.

[Tomy2Tone]

That explains it.  No sensible audiophile would triple cryo.  If you're going to cryo at all you do it once.  Get in, cryo, get the hell out.  Everyone knows that.

 
That was good!

[Rclark]

So, you've had one negative experience with cryo (but you bit in the first place) and now you are dismissing the entire process and all or most other tweaks as unicorn chasing?

Why did you try your speaker wire? In a unicorn chasing mood?

No, I was a dumb noob reading a thread like this one.

A sucker is born every minute, lucky I learned my lesson once. Carry on with the "cryo'd (class d lol!) Amp is more musical neutral,  better PRAT" lmao.

And, all due respect, I wouldn't trust Ozark Tom's opinion on anything. He sells the stuff!

Him and his brown power except on flavor of the week. Then it works good.

[OzarkTom]

No, I was a dumb noob reading a thread like this one.

A sucker is born every minute, lucky I learned my lesson once. Carry on with the "cryo'd (class d lol!) Amp is more musical neutral,  better PRAT" lmao.

And, all due respect, I wouldn't trust Ozark Tom's opinion on anything. He sells the stuff!

Him and his brown power except on flavor of the week. Then it works good.

Yeah, Crown is giving me a huge pay check for pushing these 200 buck used amps.

[werd]

Yeah, Crown is giving me a huge pay check for pushing these 200 buck used amps.

I thought you "use to sell". You still selling?

[bladesmith]

Cryogenically treated steel/metal/copper only brings the molicules back to a relaxed state/form. In that relaxed state the material tends to be more durable,  verses the state in which the molicules are in when temperatures rise and fall after an intense heating like soldiering, welding processes.  Or even in reforming by pressing or bending processes. It would help the steel last longer, especially in a tube. Not, sure how it would effect the sound.

The Smith.....

[OzarkTom]

I thought you "use to sell". You still selling?

Back in the 80's and 90's. Now I sell picture frames on Ebay and I make a lot more money.

Selling audio is a tough business if you are an honest dealer.

[wushuliu]

No, I was a dumb noob reading a thread like this one.

A sucker is born every minute, lucky I learned my lesson once. Carry on with the "cryo'd (class d lol!) Amp is more musical neutral,  better PRAT" lmao.

And, all due respect, I wouldn't trust Ozark Tom's opinion on anything. He sells the stuff!

Him and his brown power except on flavor of the week. Then it works good.

Don't you have a Ncore cheerleading thread to post in somewhere? Dropping the pom poms to troll about cryo? Come on now. That's unbecoming of a Wolfmother fan.

[werd]

Back in the 80's and 90's. Now I sell picture frames on Ebay and I make a lot more money.

Selling audio is a tough business if you are an honest dealer.

Then what's he talking about? Unless you are tying to lure people into taking pics of their new Crown amps and using your frames. 

[OzarkTom]

Then what's he talking about? Unless you are tying to lure people into taking pics of their new Crown amps and using your frames. 

Gee,now that is a clever suggestion.

You are hired.

[dlaloum]

I'll put in a couple of words as another fanboy for the Drivecores...

A bit of History....

My first high end speakers were Quad ESL57's, followed by ESL63' then ESL989's with a couple of brief daliances with Gale 402's and Klipsch Forte II's along the way.... then WAF kicked in and the rather visually overwhelming (in a small room) Quads had to find a replacement, something a lot more compact without sacrificing sound quality (a big ask) - currently I run a set of Gallo Ref 3.2's.

Now back to the amps, my electrostatic and Quad driven journey led me through Rotel Received (30W/channel cannot remember model) , Quad 303, 405, Adcom 555, Quad 605 (later x2), Onkyo TX-SR876 Receiver, and most lately Crown XLS2500 (x2)

The Quad 303 was fantastic with the 57's but not so much with the 63's the 405 was ok (well actually very good), but the 606 was much better...
The Adcom 555 was an experiment and was around the same time as the Klipsch Forte's - lots of Grunt relatively speaking, but a somewhat crude sound, the Quad 405 was  a bit too wimpy for the Forte's but the sound was much more refined, sweet, detailed ... the 555 soon left the premises.

The Quad 989's were (are) a really fantastic high end speaker - suits my tastes to a tee - and matched with the Quad 606 it was a marriage made in heaven (the other half on the other hand had some issues with it..... I met her after the speakers had entered my household, and when she entered the household they ultimately had to leave)

For AV / general purpose use in the main room, I then got the Onkyo Receiver, which does not lack for power, being around the same as the 606's (circa 140W RMS @ 8ohm).

When I replaced the Quads with the Gallo's I found the sound excellent in most aspects, but it fell down when there was highly complex musical passages at high levels (orchestral crescendo's) - the sound would start getting confused, and the instruments would meld and stop being seperately identifiable.

I started to experiment - the received can be set up to biamp or to bridge, I also purchased a second 606 to try that in a biamp setup with a passive crossover to the 2nd Voice coil (Bridged receiver was better than biamped receiver, Quad 606 was still sweeter and smoother, but only slightly, marginal further improvement with 2x606 and biamp) - no cigar, none of these managed to resolve the issue I was having.

Further reading showed that Anthony Gallo demo'd his speakers with a 500W class D Spectrum amp.... Too rich for my wallet.
But then came a series of reviews that said maybe the pro Crown Drivecore series are worthy contenders.

They are not as cheap here in Australia as they are in the US (double the price!) - but I managed to get an XLS2500 used from the US (even with shipping it was less than half the local price) - and worked out how to convert it to the local power standard (240V).

The difference was immediately noticeable - on most (all?)  material I found the XLS2500 to be as good as my 606's, and when the crescendo came along - HOORAY - the instruments were once again seperated the way they had been on the Quad 63 & 989.

I had faith that the speakers should be sonically capable based on reviews - but to actually achieve it required amps that had both the required delicacy and detail as well as sheer grunt.
Needless to say they also do well on Home Theatre duties.

I alter picked up another XLS2500 used for driving the 2nd voice coil on the speakers woofer.... this eliminates the need for seperate subs (unless you are aiming for true 10Hz performance.... but I am satisfied with decent 20Hz)

I tell the lengthy story to show some of my own background and the gear I am comparing them to.

I am completely converted by the drivecores - they are astounding amps and absolutely incredible value.
My next step would have been looking at a DIY high power Class D amp or one of the good value manufacturers (the Cherry/Maraschino amps were looking interesting, as were the Ncores etc...) - but right now I have no dissatisfaction with my system performance, so am sitting tight on the amps....

(looking around at preamp and AV Prepro levels though - but that is another story)

I really cannot recommend the XLS series highly enough.

If I still had Quad electrostatics, they might or might not have been an improvement - but they would have been unnecessary - the Quad 606's did a fabulous job there - but it just goes to show that you really do need to have the right amp for the job.
And with some speakers you really do need 440W doubling down into 4ohm and again into 2ohm....
Could I have achieved the same thing with another type of amp - probably, but not at anywhere near the price - in fact I would be struggling to achieve the quality and power/current at 5x the price I paid.

bye for now

David

[werd]

Gee,now that is a clever suggestion.

You are hired.

Hey I'm a business man first. In the hood they call me Big Daddy Instagram cuz I can deliver high quality product at a moments notice.

[OzarkTom]

Great story David, the Crown is worthy to run the Quads. But, I would hate to recommend them because of the high power rating. I could see someone frying their panels.

The best I ever heard any ESL is run them with Direct Drive OTL servo amps. Roger Modjeski now makes one that can run the Quads direct, by bypassing the transformers in any ESL can be a startling revelation. The second best on the 57's and 63's that  I have ever heard is the NYAL Futterman OTL's, but good luck on finding a pair. Nobody wants to get rid of them and the prices are extreme.

[JDUBS]

Don't you have a Ncore cheerleading thread to post in somewhere? Dropping the pom poms to troll about cryo? Come on now. That's unbecoming of a Wolfmother fan.

He has ncore and everyone else should too!  Soooo annoying.

-Jim